Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 02:54:34 +0100
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=A4?= <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: mailia / http://triple-double-u.com/mailia

At present the rapidly expanding Semantic Web analyzes digital
information in order to distinguish valuable content from digital trash.
As well modern day search engines give more and more precise results of
searched information yet how far will this artificial intelligence go?
Will we eventually be able to leave it to machines to perform automated
tasks such as creating images or writing texts?

For example digital information that is delivered via email increases
daily if not hourly which in turn takes more and more time to answer and
sort. The email answering machine provides a solution for this as it
will write the answer emails using material available online.

Mailia analyzes emails coming to ones mailbox and simply replies to
them. Forget automated standard 'Out of Office' replies, Mailia is as
intelligent as software like Eliza and as flexible as open source
products. The email answering machine works in the following way: it
grabs an incoming message, analyzes it, sends requests to the Google
search engine, then picks up given results, sorts them, and outputs the
information into an email form which is sent back to the sender. If
answers are publicly saved, search engines will index the answers again
and utilize these as output for other similar replies. Ironic as this
statement may seem - 'Why not let the machines live their own lives'.

Mailia is free software released under the GNU General Public License.

-- mi_ga. Tue,  21 Mar 2006

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From: mi_ga[at]o-o.lt
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:  mailia
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:50:02 +0000 (GMT)

The deadline for withdrawal of abstracts is January 20, 2006. ... 
2001-2006  American College of Medical Genetics. All rights reserved ...
Deadline for submitting list of 23 players remains 15 May 2006 · 
Referees enter  final FIFA World Cup preparation phase · More 
Releases · Media Channel ...
Leaders Announced for 2007 Rose Parade and Rose Bowl Game · Paul 
Holman Elected  President of 2007 Tournament of Roses® · 2006 
Rose Bowl Earns Championship ...

mailia

list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> DIGITAL DIFFERENCE: RECONTEXTUALIZING NEW MEDIA ART
>
>Chair: Juliet Davis, University of Tampa, 302 49th St. N., St. 
Petersburg, FL 33710
>
>
>From fine-art games to electronic literature, new media have introduced
>
>a host of terms that might seem contradictory in the context
>
>of traditional art scholarship and cultural studies. While some
>
>writers have made cases for new media as extensions of art and
>
>literary traditions, others see completely new cultural forms that
>
>largely break with tradition. Furthermore, while some cultural studies
>
>scholars have seen interactive media as the ultimate postmodern
>
>expression, others note modernist trends such as generative-
>
>software artists’ focus on form. This panel seeks to identify
>
>attributes of new media that distinguish them—culturally, politically,
>
>and phenomenologically—from their predecessors in art and
>
>literary worlds. How does the configurative nature of computer-generated
>
>art differentiate it from a traditional interpretive work?
>
>How might we make distinctions about types and degrees of
>
>interactivity and immersion in all these media? How does the
>
>pleasure of experiencing interactive media correspond to our
>
>notions of the pleasure experiencing other kinds of art, such as
>
>viewing a film or reading a novel? How does digital media uniquely
>
>problematize representation? How do these problems compare
>
>to those in other media, currently and historically? To what extent
>
>do these problems relate to digital art as medium versus digital
>
>art as genre, and to what extent do they indicate an art movement
>
>that might be characterized as modern, postmodern, or
>
>beyond postmodern? Proposals from artists, historians, and theoreticians
>
>are welcomed; nontraditional formats are encouraged.
>
>
>GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR SPEAKERS
>
>1. CAA individual membership is required of all participants.
>
>2. No one may participate in the same capacity two years in a
>
>row. Speakers in the 2006 conference may not be speakers in
>
>2007; a 2006 speaker may, however, be a discussant in 2007,
>
>and vice versa.
>
>3. No one may participate in more than one session in any
>
>capacity (for example, a chair, speaker, or discussant in one
>
>session is ineligible for participation in any capacity in any
>
>other session), although a chair may deliver a paper or serve
>
>as discussant in his or her own session provided he or she did
>
>not serve in that capacity in 2006. Exception: A speaker who
>
>participates in a practical session on professional and educational
>
>issues may present a paper in a second session.
>
>4. Session chairs must be informed if one or more proposals are
>
>being submitted to other sessions for consideration.
>
>5. A paper that has been published previously or presented at
>
>another scholarly conference may not be delivered at the CAA
>
>Annual Conference.
>
>6. Acceptance in a session implies a commitment to attend that
>
>session and participate in person.
>
>
>PRELIMINARY PROPOSALS TO SESSION CHAIRS
>
>Due May 5, 2006
>
>Proposals for participation in sessions should be sent directly to
>
>the appropriate session chair(s). If a session is cochaired, a copy
>
>should be sent to each chair, unless otherwise indicated. Every
>
>proposal should include the following six items:
>
>1. Completed session participation proposal form, located at the
>
>end of this publication.
>
>2. Preliminary abstract of one to two double-spaced, typed pages.
>
>3. Letter explaining speaker’s interest, expertise in the topic, and
>
>CAA membership status.
>
>4. C.V. with home and office mailing addresses, e-mail address,
>
>and phone and fax numbers. Include summer address and
>
>telephone number, if applicable.
>
>5. Slides, videotapes, or other documentation of work when
>
>appropriate (with SASE), especially for sessions in which artists
>
>might discuss their own work.
>
>6. A stamped, self-addressed postcard for confirmation that
>
>proposal has been received. If mailing internationally, it is recommended
>
>that proposals be sent via certified mail, return
>
>receipt requested.
>
>
>CHAIRS WILL DETERMINE THE SPEAKERS FOR THEIR
>
>SESSIONS AND REPLY TO ALL APPLICANTS BY JUNE 2, 2006.
>
>ABSTRACTS OF PAPERS TO SESSION CHAIRS
>
>Due September 1, 2006
>
>At the session chair’s request, a final abstract must be prepared
>
>by each speaker and submitted to the chair for publication in
>
>Abstracts 2007. Detailed specifications for preparation of
>
>abstracts will be sent to all speakers.
>
>
>FULL TEXTS OF PAPERS TO SESSION CHAIRS
>
>Due December 1, 2006
>
>Speakers are required to submit the full texts of their papers to
>
>chairs. Where sessions have contributions other than prepared
>
>papers, chairs may require equivalent materials by the same
>
>deadline. These submissions are essential to the success of the
>
>sessions; they assure the quality and designated length of the
>
>papers and permit their circulation to discussants and other participants
>
>as requested by the chair. Failure to comply with the
>
>deadline or with a chair’s request for materials in advance may
>
>result in a speaker’s name being dropped from the program, even
>
>though his or her name may appear in the online Preliminary
>
>Program in October 2006.
>
>
>
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From: mi_ga[at]o-o.lt
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:  mailia
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:53:57 +0000 (GMT)

Adobe PDF Conversion by Simple Form To convert an Adobe® Portable ... By 
submitting  content through these tools, you understand and agree that 
Adobe may ...
While the techniques in this document should help people author HTML 
that conforms  to ;Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0;, these 
techniques are ...
By doing this, you ensure that other sites that monitor these know to 
check back  at your site for more content. Weblogs.com is one of these 
major sites. ...

mailia

list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> At present the rapidly expanding Semantic Web analyzes digital
>information in order to distinguish valuable content from digital trash.
>As well modern day search engines give more and more precise results of
>searched information yet how far will this artificial intelligence go?
>Will we eventually be able to leave it to machines to perform automated
>tasks such as creating images or writing texts?
>
>For example digital information that is delivered via email increases
>daily if not hourly which in turn takes more and more time to answer and
>sort. The email answering machine provides a solution for this as it
>will write the answer emails using material available online.
>
>Mailia analyzes emails coming to ones mailbox and simply replies to
>them. Forget automated standard \'Out of Office\' replies, Mailia is as
>intelligent as software like Eliza and as flexible as open source
>products. The email answering machine works in the following way: it
>grabs an incoming message, analyzes it, sends requests to the Google
>search engine, then picks up given results, sorts them, and outputs the
>information into an email form which is sent back to the sender. If
>answers are publicly saved, search engines will index the answers again
>and utilize these as output for other similar replies. Ironic as this
>statement may seem - \'Why not let the machines live their own lives\'.
>
>Mailia is free software released under the GNU General Public License.
>
>-- mi_ga. Tue, 21 Mar 2006
>
>
>thats cool
>
>
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Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: mi_ga[at]o-o.lt
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:  mailia
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:10:26 +0000 (GMT)

Home page for Human Rights Watch, an organization dedicated to 
protecting the  human rights of people around the world. We stand with 
victims and activists ...
Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in 
barbarous acts  which ... All human beings are born free and equal in 
dignity and rights. ...
Works for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equal rights by 
lobbying the  federal government, educating the public, participating in 
election campaigns, ...

mailia

list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> The deadline for withdrawal of abstracts is January 20, 2006. ... 
2001-2006 American College of Medical Genetics. All rights reserved ...
>Deadline for submitting list of 23 players remains 15 May 2006 
· Referees enter final FIFA World Cup preparation phase · 
More Releases · Media Channel ...
>Leaders Announced for 2007 Rose Parade and Rose Bowl Game · 
Paul Holman Elected President of 2007 Tournament of Roses® · 2006 
Rose Bowl Earns Championship ...
>
>
>
+
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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:30:18 -0400
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - NYTIMES
From: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
CC: "P.A.M." <TheGroup[at]perpetualartmachine.com>

Nice quote Lauren.
Cheers.

March 29, 2006
Conservation
Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
By TERRY SCHWADRON

Correction Appended

FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to worry
about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces. Despite
the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and conservators
have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.

Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era, with
artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also the
traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may be
based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than two
years?

"It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the Berkeley
Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California. "That's
what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is different
because it essentially can disappear."

"I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
whichever comes first," he added.

The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of variable
media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital art,
represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation of
our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many of
these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is growing
concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum personnel,
libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms, performance
art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to another
institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.

"Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in New
York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But the
questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media. We
must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."

Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was not
part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
maintaining a collection.

For example:

A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion)," was
shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a wall
where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider preserving
the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he died
in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies must
be the same.

"For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may not
always be available," although efforts have been made to specify acceptable
parameters, she said.

A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set of
stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the Internet
has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the interactivity,
which is difficult to preserve.

Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on machinery
using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and with
other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects the
discussion about intention versus physical replication involving hardware,
which could change the work.

Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley Art
Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for digital
artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis
and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models for
preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation for
Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on variable
media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older software.
And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London and
the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.

"It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
documents digital work by participating artists and works with the Museum of
Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for how
to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that is
online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."

In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing the
original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing extensive
documentation.

Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about digital
art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at the
forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see what
was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come a
period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is not
limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be for
our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in every
walk of life. Government documents, for example."

Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the logical
from the physical."

"We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we should
be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a music
score ‹ with work recognizable even if some of the period instruments in use
at the time of creation are changed.

The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The popularity
of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish ‹ but to
keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. Preservation can
become a juggling act among competing archiving media. Photographs, for
example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical drives or
tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.

A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among public and
private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.

"Creating art through time-based media means also talking about the 3-D
effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the viewer,"
said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to have real
examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our artists
were talking about. And that is very difficult."

Correction: March 31, 2006

An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los
Angeles.
-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524


+
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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:12:44 -0400
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm -
	NYTIMES
From: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

Can someone explain to me what mailia is?

On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:

>
> mailia
>
> Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>> Nice quote Lauren.
>> Cheers.
>>
>> March 29, 2006
>> Conservation
>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>
>> Correction Appended
>>
>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to 
worry
>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces. 
Despite
>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and 
conservators
>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>
>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital 
era, with
>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but 
also the
>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that 
may be
>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less 
than two
>> years?
>>
>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the 
Berkeley
>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California. 
"That's
>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is 
different
>> because it essentially can disappear."
>>
>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
>> whichever comes first," he added.
>>
>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of 
variable
>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital 
art,
>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic 
creation of
>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, 
many of
>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is 
growing
>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum 
personnel,
>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms, 
performance
>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to 
another
>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>
>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum 
in New
>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. 
But the
>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the 
media. We
>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
>>
>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code 
was not
>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
>> maintaining a collection.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public 
Opinion)," was
>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against 
a wall
>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider 
preserving
>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate 
(he died
>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the 
candies must
>> be the same.
>>
>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they 
may not
>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify 
acceptable
>> parameters, she said.
>>
>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a 
set of
>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the 
Internet
>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the 
interactivity,
>> which is difficult to preserve.
>>
>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on 
machinery
>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens 
and with
>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art 
reflects the
>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving 
hardware,
>> which could change the work.
>>
>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the 
Berkeley Art
>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for 
digital
>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in 
Minneapolis
>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create 
models for
>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois 
Foundation for
>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on 
variable
>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older 
software.
>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in 
London and
>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>
>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with the 
Museum of
>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards 
for how
>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work 
that is
>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>
>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include 
storing the
>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing 
extensive
>> documentation.
>>
>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about 
digital
>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be 
at the
>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to 
see what
>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will 
come a
>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But 
this is not
>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will 
be for
>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone 
in every
>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>
>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the 
logical
>> from the physical."
>>
>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps 
we should
>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a 
music
>> score ‹ with work recognizable even if some of the period 
instruments in use
>> at the time of creation are changed.
>>
>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The 
popularity
>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish ‹ 
but to
>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. 
Preservation can
>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media. Photographs, for
>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical 
drives or
>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>
>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among 
public and
>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
>>
>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about the 3-D
>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the 
viewer,"
>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to have 
real
>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our 
artists
>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>
>> Correction: March 31, 2006
>>
>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los
>> Angeles.
>> --
>> Lee Wells
>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>
>> http://www.leewells.org
>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>> 917 723 2524
>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>

-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524


+
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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 17:26:26 +0100
From: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - 
NYTIMES

I would'nt mind knowing also...

marc

>Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>
>On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>>mailia
>>
>>Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Nice quote Lauren.
>>>Cheers.
>>>
>>>March 29, 2006
>>>Conservation
>>>Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>
>>>Correction Appended
>>>
>>>FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to 
worry
>>>about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces. 
Despite
>>>the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and 
conservators
>>>have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>
>>>Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital 
era, with
>>>artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but 
also the
>>>traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
>>>safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that 
may be
>>>based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less 
than two
>>>years?
>>>
>>>"It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
>>>something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the 
Berkeley
>>>Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California. 
"That's
>>>what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is 
different
>>>because it essentially can disappear."
>>>
>>>"I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
>>>whichever comes first," he added.
>>>
>>>The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of 
variable
>>>media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital 
art,
>>>represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic 
creation of
>>>our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, 
many of
>>>these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is 
growing
>>>concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum 
personnel,
>>>libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms, 
performance
>>>art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
>>>difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to 
another
>>>institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
>>>limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>
>>>"Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
>>>conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum 
in New
>>>York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
>>>experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. 
But the
>>>questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the 
media. We
>>>must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
>>>allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
>>>
>>>Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code 
was not
>>>part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
>>>maintaining a collection.
>>>
>>>For example:
>>>
>>>A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public 
Opinion)," was
>>>shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against 
a wall
>>>where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider 
preserving
>>>the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate 
(he died
>>>in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
>>>pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the 
candies must
>>>be the same.
>>>
>>>"For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they 
may not
>>>always be available," although efforts have been made to specify 
acceptable
>>>parameters, she said.
>>>
>>>A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
>>>invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a 
set of
>>>stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the 
Internet
>>>has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the 
interactivity,
>>>which is difficult to preserve.
>>>
>>>Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on 
machinery
>>>using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens 
and with
>>>other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art 
reflects the
>>>discussion about intention versus physical replication involving 
hardware,
>>>which could change the work.
>>>
>>>Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
>>>Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the 
Berkeley Art
>>>Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for 
digital
>>>artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in 
Minneapolis
>>>and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
>>>Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create 
models for
>>>preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois 
Foundation for
>>>Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on 
variable
>>>media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older 
software.
>>>And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in 
London and
>>>the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>
>>>"It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>>>materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
>>>documents digital work by participating artists and works with the 
Museum of
>>>Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards 
for how
>>>to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work 
that is
>>>online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>
>>>In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include 
storing the
>>>original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing 
extensive
>>>documentation.
>>>
>>>Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about 
digital
>>>art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be 
at the
>>>forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
>>>this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to 
see what
>>>was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will 
come a
>>>period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But 
this is not
>>>limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will 
be for
>>>our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone 
in every
>>>walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>
>>>Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the 
logical
>>>from the physical."
>>>
>>>"We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps 
we should
>>>be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
>>>academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a 
music
>>>score ‹ with work recognizable even if some of the period 
instruments in use
>>>at the time of creation are changed.
>>>
>>>The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>>>conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The 
popularity
>>>of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish ‹ 
but to
>>>keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. 
Preservation can
>>>become a juggling act among competing archiving media. Photographs, for
>>>example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical 
drives or
>>>tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>
>>>A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
>>>granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among 
public and
>>>private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
>>>
>>>"Creating art through time-based media means also talking about the 3-D
>>>effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the 
viewer,"
>>>said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
>>>becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
>>>generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to have 
real
>>>examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our 
artists
>>>were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>
>>>Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>
>>>An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
>>>preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
>>>online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los
>>>Angeles.
>>>--
>>>Lee Wells
>>>Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>
>>>http://www.leewells.org
>>>http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>917 723 2524
>>>
>>>
>>>+
>>>-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>+
>>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>


+
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Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:49:53 -0400
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm -
	NYTIMES
From: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>
To: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>, rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

I'm glad I'm not alone.

On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:

> I would'nt mind knowing also...
>
> marc
>
>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>>
>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> mailia
>>>
>>> Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> March 29, 2006
>>>> Conservation
>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>>
>>>> Correction Appended
>>>>
>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced 
to worry
>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into 
pieces. Despite
>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and 
conservators
>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>>
>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital 
era,
>>>> with
>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but 
also the
>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a 
museum
>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and 
that may be
>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in 
less than
>>>> two
>>>> years?
>>>>
>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
>>>> Berkeley
>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California.
>>>> "That's
>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is 
different
>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
>>>>
>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
>>>>
>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of 
variable
>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and 
digital art,
>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic 
creation of
>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, 
many of
>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There 
is growing
>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum 
personnel,
>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
>>>> performance
>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to 
another
>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>>
>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim 
Museum in New
>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. 
But the
>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the 
media. We
>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term 
preservation."
>>>>
>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code 
was not
>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
>>>> maintaining a collection.
>>>>
>>>> For example:
>>>>
>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public 
Opinion)," was
>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies 
against a wall
>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider 
preserving
>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate 
(he died
>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was 
important; the
>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the 
candies
>>>> must
>>>> be the same.
>>>>
>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they 
may not
>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify 
acceptable
>>>> parameters, she said.
>>>>
>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called 
"net.flag"
>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change 
a set of
>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the 
Internet
>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the 
interactivity,
>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
>>>>
>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on 
machinery
>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens 
and with
>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art 
reflects the
>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving 
hardware,
>>>> which could change the work.
>>>>
>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues 
systematically. The
>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the 
Berkeley
>>>> Art
>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for 
digital
>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in 
Minneapolis
>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create 
models for
>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois 
Foundation for
>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
>>>> variable
>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older 
software.
>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in 
London and
>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>>
>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with the 
Museum
>>>> of
>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any 
standards for how
>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work 
that is
>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>>
>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include 
storing the
>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing 
extensive
>>>> documentation.
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about 
digital
>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be 
at the
>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly 
developing is
>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able 
to see
>>>> what
>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will 
come a
>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But 
this is
>>>> not
>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will 
be for
>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in
>>>> every
>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>>
>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates 
the logical
>>>> from the physical."
>>>>
>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we
>>>> should
>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has 
written
>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to 
a music
>>>> score Š with work recognizable even if some of the period 
instruments in
>>>> use
>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
>>>>
>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The 
popularity
>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish 
Š but to
>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. 
Preservation
>>>> can
>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media. 
Photographs, for
>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical 
drives
>>>> or
>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>>
>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among 
public and
>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
>>>>
>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about 
the 3-D
>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the 
viewer,"
>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to 
have real
>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our
>>>> artists
>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>>
>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>>
>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art 
in Los
>>>> Angeles.
>>>> --
>>>> Lee Wells
>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>
>>>> http://www.leewells.org
>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>> 917 723 2524
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +
>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: 
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>> +
>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>> Membership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524


+
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To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
From: beate zurwehme <beate[at]zurwehme.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: mailia
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:26:39 +0200


http://www.ubermorgen.com/Psychotropic_Drug_Karaoke/


H-




ps: text source http://www.ubermorgen.com/hansbernhardblog




--
Hans Bernhard
UBERMORGEN.COM / grether.holding

Skype Hans_Bernhard
Studio +43 1 236 19 85
Mobile +43 650 930 00 61
Email hans[at]grether.com

http://www.grether.com
http://www.zvei.org




-----Syndicate mailinglist-----------------------
Syndicate network for media culture and media art
information and archive: http://syndicate.anart.no
to post to the Syndicate list: <syndicate[at]anart.no>
Shake the KKnut: http://syndicate.anart.no/KKnut/
no commercial use of the texts without permission

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Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 11:47:30 -0700
From: "Marisa Olson" <marisa[at]rhizome.org>
To: "beate zurwehme" <beate[at]zurwehme.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: mailia
Cc: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

> ps: text source http://www.ubermorgen.com/hansbernhardblog

actually...

http://www.linkoln.net/abeandmosingtheblogs/

On 4/2/06, beate zurwehme <beate[at]zurwehme.org> wrote:
>
> http://www.ubermorgen.com/Psychotropic_Drug_Karaoke/
>
>
> H-
>
>
>
>
> ps: text source http://www.ubermorgen.com/hansbernhardblog
>
>
>
>
> --
> Hans Bernhard
> UBERMORGEN.COM / grether.holding
>
> Skype Hans_Bernhard
> Studio +43 1 236 19 85
> Mobile +43 650 930 00 61
> Email hans[at]grether.com
>
> http://www.grether.com
> http://www.zvei.org
>
>
>
>
> -----Syndicate mailinglist-----------------------
> Syndicate network for media culture and media art
> information and archive: http://syndicate.anart.no
> to post to the Syndicate list: <syndicate[at]anart.no>
> Shake the KKnut: http://syndicate.anart.no/KKnut/
> no commercial use of the texts without permission
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

+
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+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 23:09:52 -0500
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm -
	NYTIMES
From: Lauren Cornell <laurencornell[at]rhizome.org>
To: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>, marc 

<marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>,
         rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>


No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and thought
I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking into got
laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L


On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:

> I'm glad I'm not alone.
>
> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:
>
>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
>>
>> marc
>>
>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>>>
>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> mailia
>>>>
>>>> Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>
>>>>> March 29, 2006
>>>>> Conservation
>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>>>
>>>>> Correction Appended
>>>>>
>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced 
to worry
>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces.
>>>>> Despite
>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and 
conservators
>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the 
digital era,
>>>>> with
>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, 
but also
>>>>> the
>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a 
museum
>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and 
that may be
>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in 
less than
>>>>> two
>>>>> years?
>>>>>
>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to 
keep
>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
>>>>> Berkeley
>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California.
>>>>> "That's
>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is 
different
>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
>>>>>
>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of 
variable
>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and 
digital art,
>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic 
creation of
>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, 
many of
>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is
>>>>> growing
>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum 
personnel,
>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
>>>>> performance
>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to 
another
>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim 
Museum in
>>>>> New
>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. 
But the
>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the 
media. We
>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, 
which
>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term 
preservation."
>>>>>
>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code 
was not
>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
>>>>> maintaining a collection.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example:
>>>>>
>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public 
Opinion)," was
>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies 
against a
>>>>> wall
>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider 
preserving
>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate 
(he died
>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was 
important; the
>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the 
candies
>>>>> must
>>>>> be the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they 
may not
>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
>>>>> acceptable
>>>>> parameters, she said.
>>>>>
>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called 
"net.flag"
>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to 
change a set
>>>>> of
>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the 
Internet
>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
>>>>> interactivity,
>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on 
machinery
>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens 
and with
>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art 
reflects the
>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving 
hardware,
>>>>> which could change the work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues 
systematically. The
>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the 
Berkeley
>>>>> Art
>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for 
digital
>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
>>>>> Minneapolis
>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create 
models
>>>>> for
>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois 
Foundation
>>>>> for
>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
>>>>> variable
>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older 
software.
>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in 
London and
>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>>>
>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with 
the Museum
>>>>> of
>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any 
standards for
>>>>> how
>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work 
that is
>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include 
storing
>>>>> the
>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing 
extensive
>>>>> documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about 
digital
>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may 
be at the
>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly 
developing is
>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able 
to see
>>>>> what
>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then 
will come a
>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But 
this is
>>>>> not
>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things 
will be for
>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to 
everyone in
>>>>> every
>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the
>>>>> logical
>>>>> from the physical."
>>>>>
>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we
>>>>> should
>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has 
written
>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin 
to a music
>>>>> score Š with work recognizable even if some of the period 
instruments in
>>>>> use
>>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
>>>>> popularity
>>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish 
Š but to
>>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. 
Preservation
>>>>> can
>>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media. 
Photographs, for
>>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to 
optical drives
>>>>> or
>>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
>>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among 
public and
>>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about 
the 3-D
>>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the
>>>>> viewer,"
>>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
>>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
>>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to 
have real
>>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our
>>>>> artists
>>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>>>
>>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>>>
>>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
>>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which 
Rhizome, an
>>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art 
in Los
>>>>> Angeles.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Lee Wells
>>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.leewells.org
>>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>>> 917 723 2524
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> +
>>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: 
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>>> +
>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: Pall Thayer <p_thay[at]alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - 
NYTIMES
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:33:28 -0400
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

Interesting. I hadn't read the article before but now that I have,
I'd like to just point to my last post, "I have a suggestion for
Rhizome..." Preserve the code. I would even go so far as to say that,
if there is a "material" aspect to digital art, it is the code.

Pall

On 4.4.2006, at 00:09, Lauren Cornell wrote:

>
> No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and
> thought
> I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking
> into got
> laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
>
>
> On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad I'm not alone.
>>
>> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
>>>
>>> marc
>>>
>>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>>>>
>>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> mailia
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
>>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> March 29, 2006
>>>>>> Conservation
>>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correction Appended
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been
>>>>>> forced to worry
>>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into
>>>>>> pieces.
>>>>>> Despite
>>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
>>>>>> conservators
>>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the
>>>>>> digital era,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience,
>>>>>> but also
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How
>>>>>> does a museum
>>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and
>>>>>> that may be
>>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in
>>>>>> less than
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided
>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media
>>>>>> at the
>>>>>> Berkeley
>>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of
>>>>>> California.
>>>>>> "That's
>>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art
>>>>>> is different
>>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five
>>>>>> years,
>>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works
>>>>>> of variable
>>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and
>>>>>> digital art,
>>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic
>>>>>> creation of
>>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and
>>>>>> preservation, many of
>>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history."
>>>>>> There is
>>>>>> growing
>>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among
>>>>>> museum personnel,
>>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
>>>>>> performance
>>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend
>>>>>> to another
>>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art
>>>>>> may be
>>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a
>>>>>> senior
>>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim
>>>>>> Museum in
>>>>>> New
>>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which
>>>>>> there was
>>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new
>>>>>> materials. But the
>>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of
>>>>>> the media. We
>>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the
>>>>>> work, which
>>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term
>>>>>> preservation."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer
>>>>>> code was not
>>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> maintaining a collection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public
>>>>>> Opinion)," was
>>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies
>>>>>> against a
>>>>>> wall
>>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To
>>>>>> consider preserving
>>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's
>>>>>> estate (he died
>>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was
>>>>>> important; the
>>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of
>>>>>> the candies
>>>>>> must
>>>>>> be the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but
>>>>>> they may not
>>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
>>>>>> acceptable
>>>>>> parameters, she said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called
>>>>>> "net.flag"
>>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to
>>>>>> change a set
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how
>>>>>> the Internet
>>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
>>>>>> interactivity,
>>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made
>>>>>> on machinery
>>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma
>>>>>> screens and with
>>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art
>>>>>> reflects the
>>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication
>>>>>> involving hardware,
>>>>>> which could change the work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues
>>>>>> systematically. The
>>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes
>>>>>> the Berkeley
>>>>>> Art
>>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community
>>>>>> for digital
>>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
>>>>>> Minneapolis
>>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to
>>>>>> create models
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois
>>>>>> Foundation
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and
>>>>>> symposium on
>>>>>> variable
>>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run
>>>>>> older software.
>>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern
>>>>>> in London and
>>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of
>>>>>> Rhizome, which
>>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with
>>>>>> the Museum
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any
>>>>>> standards for
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve
>>>>>> work that is
>>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques
>>>>>> include storing
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or
>>>>>> preparing extensive
>>>>>> documentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions
>>>>>> about digital
>>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art,
>>>>>> may be at the
>>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly
>>>>>> developing is
>>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be
>>>>>> able to see
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then
>>>>>> will come a
>>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on.
>>>>>> But this is
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things
>>>>>> will be for
>>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to
>>>>>> everyone in
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art
>>>>>> "separates the
>>>>>> logical
>>>>>> from the physical."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said.
>>>>>> "Perhaps we
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart
>>>>>> has written
>>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more
>>>>>> akin to a music
>>>>>> score ‹ with work recognizable even if some of the period
>>>>>> instruments in
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>>>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
>>>>>> popularity
>>>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to
>>>>>> publish ‹ but to
>>>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated.
>>>>>> Preservation
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media.
>>>>>> Photographs, for
>>>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to
>>>>>> optical drives
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital
>>>>>> preservation was
>>>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts
>>>>>> among public and
>>>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain
>>>>>> collections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking
>>>>>> about the 3-D
>>>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> viewer,"
>>>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The
>>>>>> question
>>>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If
>>>>>> future
>>>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need
>>>>>> to have real
>>>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we
>>>>>> and our
>>>>>> artists
>>>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about
>>>>>> methods for
>>>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which
>>>>>> Rhizome, an
>>>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary
>>>>>> Art in Los
>>>>>> Angeles.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Lee Wells
>>>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.leewells.org
>>>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>>>> 917 723 2524
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +
>>>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
>>>>>> subscribe.rhiz
>>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>>>> +
>>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/
>>>>>> info/29.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +
>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
>>> subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
>>> 29.php
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
> 29.php
>



--
Pall Thayer
p_thay[at]alcor.concordia.ca
http://www.this.is/pallit





+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: Ryan Griffis <ryan.griffis[at]gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - 
NYTIMES
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:47:43 -0500
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

Apparently, Mailia is some software that someone on the list is
running, so it's auto-replying to everyone's email...
see:
http://www.rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?thread=20772&page=1
ryan

On Apr 3, 2006, at 11:09 PM, Lauren Cornell wrote:

>
> No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and
> thought
> I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking
> into got
> laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
>
>
> On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad I'm not alone.
>>
>> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
>>>
>>> marc
>>>
>>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>>>>
>>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> mailia
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
>>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> March 29, 2006
>>>>>> Conservation
>>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correction Appended
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced
>>>>>> to worry
>>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into
>>>>>> pieces.
>>>>>> Despite
>>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
>>>>>> conservators
>>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the
>>>>>> digital era,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience,
>>>>>> but also
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a
>>>>>> museum
>>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and
>>>>>> that may be
>>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in
>>>>>> less than
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to
>>>>>> keep
>>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Berkeley
>>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of
>>>>>> California.
>>>>>> "That's
>>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five
>>>>>> years,
>>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of
>>>>>> variable
>>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and
>>>>>> digital art,
>>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic
>>>>>> creation of
>>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation,
>>>>>> many of
>>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> growing
>>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum
>>>>>> personnel,
>>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
>>>>>> performance
>>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a
>>>>>> senior
>>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim
>>>>>> Museum in
>>>>>> New
>>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials.
>>>>>> But the
>>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the
>>>>>> media. We
>>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term
>>>>>> preservation."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code
>>>>>> was not
>>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> maintaining a collection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public
>>>>>> Opinion)," was
>>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies
>>>>>> against a
>>>>>> wall
>>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider
>>>>>> preserving
>>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate
>>>>>> (he died
>>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was
>>>>>> important; the
>>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the
>>>>>> candies
>>>>>> must
>>>>>> be the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they
>>>>>> may not
>>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
>>>>>> acceptable
>>>>>> parameters, she said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called
>>>>>> "net.flag"
>>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to
>>>>>> change a set
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the
>>>>>> Internet
>>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
>>>>>> interactivity,
>>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on
>>>>>> machinery
>>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens
>>>>>> and with
>>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art
>>>>>> reflects the
>>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving
>>>>>> hardware,
>>>>>> which could change the work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues
>>>>>> systematically. The
>>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the
>>>>>> Berkeley
>>>>>> Art
>>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for
>>>>>> digital
>>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
>>>>>> Minneapolis
>>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create
>>>>>> models
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois
>>>>>> Foundation
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> variable
>>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older
>>>>>> software.
>>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in
>>>>>> London and
>>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with
>>>>>> the Museum
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any
>>>>>> standards for
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work
>>>>>> that is
>>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include
>>>>>> storing
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing
>>>>>> extensive
>>>>>> documentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about
>>>>>> digital
>>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may
>>>>>> be at the
>>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly
>>>>>> developing is
>>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able
>>>>>> to see
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then
>>>>>> will come a
>>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But
>>>>>> this is
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things
>>>>>> will be for
>>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to
>>>>>> everyone in
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> logical
>>>>>> from the physical."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said.
>>>>>> "Perhaps we
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has
>>>>>> written
>>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin
>>>>>> to a music
>>>>>> score ‹ with work recognizable even if some of the period
>>>>>> instruments in
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>>>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
>>>>>> popularity
>>>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish
>>>>>> ‹ but to
>>>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated.
>>>>>> Preservation
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media.
>>>>>> Photographs, for
>>>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to
>>>>>> optical drives
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among
>>>>>> public and
>>>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain
>>>>>> collections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about
>>>>>> the 3-D
>>>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the
>>>>>> viewer,"
>>>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The
>>>>>> question
>>>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If
>>>>>> future
>>>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to
>>>>>> have real
>>>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> artists
>>>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which
>>>>>> Rhizome, an
>>>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art
>>>>>> in Los
>>>>>> Angeles.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Lee Wells
>>>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.leewells.org
>>>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>>>> 917 723 2524
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +
>>>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>>>>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>>>> +
>>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
>>>>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +
>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at
>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>


+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 19:19:06 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alexis Turner <subbies[at]redheadedstepchild.org>
To: Ryan Griffis <ryan.griffis[at]gmail.com>
cc: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Mailia sucks (was preserving work)

Especially "interesting" since the software is a rip of James Coupe's 
Difference
Engine - http://www.difference-engine.net/.

I have my trusty Pine filters set to automatically delete anything with 
"DO NOT
SPAM ART" as the subject.  I think I'll just add mailia to those filters.
-Alexis


On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Ryan Griffis wrote:

::Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:47:43 -0500
::From: Ryan Griffis <ryan.griffis[at]gmail.com>
::To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
::Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm -
::    NYTIMES
::
::Apparently, Mailia is some software that someone on the list is 
running, so
::it's auto-replying to everyone's email...
::see:
::http://www.rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?thread=20772&page=1
::ryan
::
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:52:57 +0100
From: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
Cc: Lauren Cornell <laurencornell[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - 
NYTIMES

Hi Lauren,

I started receiving them and I thought that it was just another one of
those spam games by some net art prankster at first...

I received them usually after sending something to Rhizome - did (or do
you) you have an problem with your email systems being used by spammers
on your server? I now that it is most common when a server is using
Microsoft's Exchange, or though we had a similar issue on our server
last year and it was not a Microsoft system.

Anyway,

Hope it all works out :-)

marc



>No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and thought
>I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking 
into got
>laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
>
>
>On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'm glad I'm not alone.
>>
>>On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I would'nt mind knowing also...
>>>
>>>marc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>>>>
>>>>On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>mailia
>>>>>
>>>>>Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Nice quote Lauren.
>>>>>>Cheers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>March 29, 2006
>>>>>>Conservation
>>>>>>Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>>>>By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Correction Appended
>>>>>>
>>>>>>FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced 
to worry
>>>>>>about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces.
>>>>>>Despite
>>>>>>the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and 
conservators
>>>>>>have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the 
digital era,
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, 
but also
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a 
museum
>>>>>>safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and 
that may be
>>>>>>based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in 
less than
>>>>>>two
>>>>>>years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to 
keep
>>>>>>something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
>>>>>>Berkeley
>>>>>>Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California.
>>>>>>"That's
>>>>>>what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is 
different
>>>>>>because it essentially can disappear."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
>>>>>>whichever comes first," he added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of 
variable
>>>>>>media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and 
digital art,
>>>>>>represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic 
creation of
>>>>>>our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, 
many of
>>>>>>these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is
>>>>>>growing
>>>>>>concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum 
personnel,
>>>>>>libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
>>>>>>performance
>>>>>>art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
>>>>>>difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to 
another
>>>>>>institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
>>>>>>limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
>>>>>>conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim 
Museum in
>>>>>>New
>>>>>>York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
>>>>>>experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. 
But the
>>>>>>questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the 
media. We
>>>>>>must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, 
which
>>>>>>allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term 
preservation."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code 
was not
>>>>>>part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
>>>>>>maintaining a collection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public 
Opinion)," was
>>>>>>shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies 
against a
>>>>>>wall
>>>>>>where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider 
preserving
>>>>>>the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate 
(he died
>>>>>>in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was 
important; the
>>>>>>pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the 
candies
>>>>>>must
>>>>>>be the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they 
may not
>>>>>>always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
>>>>>>acceptable
>>>>>>parameters, she said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called 
"net.flag"
>>>>>>invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to 
change a set
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the 
Internet
>>>>>>has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
>>>>>>interactivity,
>>>>>>which is difficult to preserve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on 
machinery
>>>>>>using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens 
and with
>>>>>>other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art 
reflects the
>>>>>>discussion about intention versus physical replication involving 
hardware,
>>>>>>which could change the work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Art institutions have begun to look at these issues 
systematically. The
>>>>>>Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the 
Berkeley
>>>>>>Art
>>>>>>Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for 
digital
>>>>>>artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
>>>>>>Minneapolis
>>>>>>and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
>>>>>>Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create 
models
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois 
Foundation
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
>>>>>>variable
>>>>>>media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older 
software.
>>>>>>And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in 
London and
>>>>>>the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>>>>>>materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
>>>>>>documents digital work by participating artists and works with 
the Museum
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any 
standards for
>>>>>>how
>>>>>>to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work 
that is
>>>>>>online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include 
storing
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing 
extensive
>>>>>>documentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about 
digital
>>>>>>art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may 
be at the
>>>>>>forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly 
developing is
>>>>>>this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able 
to see
>>>>>>what
>>>>>>was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then 
will come a
>>>>>>period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But 
this is
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things 
will be for
>>>>>>our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to 
everyone in
>>>>>>every
>>>>>>walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the
>>>>>>logical
>>>>>>from the physical."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we
>>>>>>should
>>>>>>be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has 
written
>>>>>>academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin 
to a music
>>>>>>score Š with work recognizable even if some of the period 
instruments in
>>>>>>use
>>>>>>at the time of creation are changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>>>>>>conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
>>>>>>popularity
>>>>>>of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish 
Š but to
>>>>>>keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. 
Preservation
>>>>>>can
>>>>>>become a juggling act among competing archiving media. 
Photographs, for
>>>>>>example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to 
optical drives
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
>>>>>>granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among 
public and
>>>>>>private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Creating art through time-based media means also talking about 
the 3-D
>>>>>>effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the
>>>>>>viewer,"
>>>>>>said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
>>>>>>becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
>>>>>>generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to 
have real
>>>>>>examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our
>>>>>>artists
>>>>>>were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>>>>
>>>>>>An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
>>>>>>preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which 
Rhizome, an
>>>>>>online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>>>>Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art 
in Los
>>>>>>Angeles.
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Lee Wells
>>>>>>Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.leewells.org
>>>>>>http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>>>>917 723 2524
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>+
>>>>>>-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>>-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: 
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>>>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>>>>+
>>>>>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>>>>Membership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>+
>>>-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>+
>>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>
>>>
>
>
>+
>-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>


+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:25:53 -0700
To: list[at]rhizome.org
From: Eric Dymond <dymond[at]idirect.ca>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Re: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the 
Norm -	NYTIMES

I think the mailia (responder) is the work of an artist based in Germany:
mi_ga

http://triple-double-u.com/mailia/

Eric
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - 
NYTIMES
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:48:10 -0400
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

Hello,

So, Mailia is apparently an art project written by this Rhizome user:

      mi_ga[at]o-o.lt

There's enough of a history of spam / art to complicate matters.
There are plenty unrequested, confusing, and obscure emails which are
sent to RAW.  That's part of the beauty of RAW.

What bothers me is the forgery of the "list[at]rhizome.org" email
address.  I think this classic virus / spam technique is evasive and
ultimately abusive as it takes up our time to investigate the problem.

I'd rather that mi_ga take responsibility for his / her progeny and
use a more appropriate "From Address".  Although it may have been
mi_ga's intention for us at Rhizome to  answer questions about the
artwork, our recent server issues have put a strain on our time.

My question is whether the readers of RAW think that it is
appropriate for me to proceed with these actions:

    * report mi_ga and mi_ga's ISP as a spammer
    * remove mi_ga from the Rhizome RAW list.

Cheers,

Patrick

--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +


On Apr 3, 2006, at 11:47 AM, Ryan Griffis wrote:

> Apparently, Mailia is some software that someone on the list is
> running, so it's auto-replying to everyone's email...
> see:
> http://www.rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?thread=20772&page=1
> ryan
>
> On Apr 3, 2006, at 11:09 PM, Lauren Cornell wrote:
>
>>
>> No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and
>> thought
>> I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking
>> into got
>> laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm glad I'm not alone.
>>>
>>> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
>>>>
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> mailia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
>>>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> March 29, 2006
>>>>>>> Conservation
>>>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correction Appended
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been
>>>>>>> forced to worry
>>>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into
>>>>>>> pieces.
>>>>>>> Despite
>>>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
>>>>>>> conservators
>>>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the
>>>>>>> digital era,
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the
>>>>>>> audience, but also
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How
>>>>>>> does a museum
>>>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience
>>>>>>> and that may be
>>>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear
>>>>>>> in less than
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> years?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we
>>>>>>> decided to keep
>>>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media
>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>> Berkeley
>>>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of
>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>> "That's
>>>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art
>>>>>>> is different
>>>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five
>>>>>>> years,
>>>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem:
>>>>>>> "Works of variable
>>>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and
>>>>>>> digital art,
>>>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant
>>>>>>> artistic creation of
>>>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and
>>>>>>> preservation, many of
>>>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history."
>>>>>>> There is
>>>>>>> growing
>>>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among
>>>>>>> museum personnel,
>>>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
>>>>>>> performance
>>>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that
>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or
>>>>>>> lend to another
>>>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art
>>>>>>> may be
>>>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari,
>>>>>>> a senior
>>>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim
>>>>>>> Museum in
>>>>>>> New
>>>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which
>>>>>>> there was
>>>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new
>>>>>>> materials. But the
>>>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of
>>>>>>> the media. We
>>>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the
>>>>>>> work, which
>>>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term
>>>>>>> preservation."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer
>>>>>>> code was not
>>>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises
>>>>>>> questions about
>>>>>>> maintaining a collection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public
>>>>>>> Opinion)," was
>>>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies
>>>>>>> against a
>>>>>>> wall
>>>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To
>>>>>>> consider preserving
>>>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's
>>>>>>> estate (he died
>>>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was
>>>>>>> important; the
>>>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of
>>>>>>> the candies
>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> be the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but
>>>>>>> they may not
>>>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
>>>>>>> acceptable
>>>>>>> parameters, she said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called
>>>>>>> "net.flag"
>>>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to
>>>>>>> change a set
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how
>>>>>>> the Internet
>>>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
>>>>>>> interactivity,
>>>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made
>>>>>>> on machinery
>>>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma
>>>>>>> screens and with
>>>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art
>>>>>>> reflects the
>>>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication
>>>>>>> involving hardware,
>>>>>>> which could change the work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues
>>>>>>> systematically. The
>>>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes
>>>>>>> the Berkeley
>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community
>>>>>>> for digital
>>>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
>>>>>>> Minneapolis
>>>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The
>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to
>>>>>>> create models
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois
>>>>>>> Foundation
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and
>>>>>>> symposium on
>>>>>>> variable
>>>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run
>>>>>>> older software.
>>>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern
>>>>>>> in London and
>>>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of
>>>>>>> Rhizome, which
>>>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works
>>>>>>> with the Museum
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any
>>>>>>> standards for
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve
>>>>>>> work that is
>>>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques
>>>>>>> include storing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or
>>>>>>> preparing extensive
>>>>>>> documentation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions
>>>>>>> about digital
>>>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art,
>>>>>>> may be at the
>>>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly
>>>>>>> developing is
>>>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be
>>>>>>> able to see
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then
>>>>>>> will come a
>>>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on.
>>>>>>> But this is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things
>>>>>>> will be for
>>>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to
>>>>>>> everyone in
>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art
>>>>>>> "separates the
>>>>>>> logical
>>>>>>> from the physical."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said.
>>>>>>> "Perhaps we
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart
>>>>>>> has written
>>>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more
>>>>>>> akin to a music
>>>>>>> score ‹ with work recognizable even if some of the period
>>>>>>> instruments in
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn
>>>>>>> attention at
>>>>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
>>>>>>> popularity
>>>>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to
>>>>>>> publish ‹ but to
>>>>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated.
>>>>>>> Preservation
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media.
>>>>>>> Photographs, for
>>>>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to
>>>>>>> optical drives
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital
>>>>>>> preservation was
>>>>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts
>>>>>>> among public and
>>>>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain
>>>>>>> collections.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking
>>>>>>> about the 3-D
>>>>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received
>>>>>>> by the
>>>>>>> viewer,"
>>>>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The
>>>>>>> question
>>>>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If
>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need
>>>>>>> to have real
>>>>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we
>>>>>>> and our
>>>>>>> artists
>>>>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about
>>>>>>> methods for
>>>>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which
>>>>>>> Rhizome, an
>>>>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary
>>>>>>> Art in Los
>>>>>>> Angeles.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Lee Wells
>>>>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.leewells.org
>>>>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>>>>> 917 723 2524
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
>>>>>>> subscribe.rhiz
>>>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/
>>>>>>> info/29.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +
>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
>>>> subscribe.rhiz
>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>> +
>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
>>>> 29.php
>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
>> subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
>> 29.php
>>
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
> 29.php


+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 03:48:26 -0400
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm -
	NYTIMES
From: Lauren Cornell <laurencornell[at]rhizome.org>
To: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>, rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

Hi Marc:

Thanks for this -- Patrick has been looking into it today, and is about to
write to the list about it.

Hope Node.London went off well! I heard it was great..

Best,
Lauren

On 4/4/06 8:52 AM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:

> Hi Lauren,
>
> I started receiving them and I thought that it was just another one of
> those spam games by some net art prankster at first...
>
> I received them usually after sending something to Rhizome - did (or do
> you) you have an problem with your email systems being used by spammers
> on your server? I now that it is most common when a server is using
> Microsoft's Exchange, or though we had a similar issue on our server
> last year and it was not a Microsoft system.
>
> Anyway,
>
> Hope it all works out :-)
>
> marc
>
>
>
>> No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and 
thought
>> I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking 
into got
>> laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm glad I'm not alone.
>>>
>>> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
>>>>
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> mailia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
>>>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> March 29, 2006
>>>>>>> Conservation
>>>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
>>>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correction Appended
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been 
forced to
>>>>>>> worry
>>>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces.
>>>>>>> Despite
>>>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
>>>>>>> conservators
>>>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the 
digital era,
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, 
but also
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does 
a museum
>>>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and 
that may
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in 
less than
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> years?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided 
to keep
>>>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
>>>>>>> Berkeley
>>>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of 
California.
>>>>>>> "That's
>>>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five 
years,
>>>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of
>>>>>>> variable
>>>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and 
digital
>>>>>>> art,
>>>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic 
creation
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and 
preservation, many
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is
>>>>>>> growing
>>>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum
>>>>>>> personnel,
>>>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
>>>>>>> performance
>>>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that 
can be
>>>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art 
may be
>>>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a 
senior
>>>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim 
Museum in
>>>>>>> New
>>>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
>>>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new 
materials. But
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the 
media.
>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the 
work, which
>>>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term 
preservation."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer 
code was
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions 
about
>>>>>>> maintaining a collection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public 
Opinion),"
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies 
against a
>>>>>>> wall
>>>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider
>>>>>>> preserving
>>>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's 
estate (he
>>>>>>> died
>>>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was 
important; the
>>>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the 
candies
>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> be the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but 
they may
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
>>>>>>> acceptable
>>>>>>> parameters, she said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called 
"net.flag"
>>>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to 
change a set
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the
>>>>>>> Internet
>>>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
>>>>>>> interactivity,
>>>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on
>>>>>>> machinery
>>>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma 
screens and
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art 
reflects
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving
>>>>>>> hardware,
>>>>>>> which could change the work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues 
systematically. The
>>>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the 
Berkeley
>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for
>>>>>>> digital
>>>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
>>>>>>> Minneapolis
>>>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The 
National
>>>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to 
create models
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois 
Foundation
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
>>>>>>> variable
>>>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older
>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in 
London
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
>>>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, 
which
>>>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with the
>>>>>>> Museum
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any 
standards for
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve 
work that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include 
storing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing
>>>>>>> extensive
>>>>>>> documentation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about
>>>>>>> digital
>>>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may 
be at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly 
developing is
>>>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be 
able to see
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then 
will come
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. 
But this is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things 
will be
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to 
everyone in
>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the
>>>>>>> logical
>>>>>>> from the physical."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. 
"Perhaps we
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has 
written
>>>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin 
to a
>>>>>>> music
>>>>>>> score Š with work recognizable even if some of the period 
instruments in
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
>>>>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
>>>>>>> popularity
>>>>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to 
publish Š but
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. 
Preservation
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media. 
Photographs, for
>>>>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical
>>>>>>> drives
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital 
preservation was
>>>>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among 
public
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain 
collections.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about 
the 3-D
>>>>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the
>>>>>>> viewer,"
>>>>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The 
question
>>>>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If 
future
>>>>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to 
have
>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we 
and our
>>>>>>> artists
>>>>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about 
methods for
>>>>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which 
Rhizome, an
>>>>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
>>>>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary 
Art in Los
>>>>>>> Angeles.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Lee Wells
>>>>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.leewells.org
>>>>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>>>>>>> 917 723 2524
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: 
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> +
>>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: 
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>>> +
>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>>> Membership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:28:35 -0700
To: list[at]rhizome.org
From: Eric Dymond <dymond[at]idirect.ca>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Re: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the 
Norm - NYTIMES

I would agree, I think the artist (who prefers to remain anonymous)
shoulod take ownership of the mailings
Eric

Mindaugas Gapsevicius (mi_ga) was born in 1974 in Lithuania, he lives 
and works in Lubeck, Germany and Vilnius, Lithuania.
Having studied visual arts in Academy of Arts in Vilnius and in 
Muthesius-Hochschule in Kiel, he works as a network administrator at 
ISNM, International School of New Media, in Lubeck. In addition he is 
working as a guest lecturer at University of Arts in Berlin.
Mindaugas Gapsevicius is one of the initiators of o-o institutio media 
which was established in 1998 and a co-author of net.art project asco-o. 
As an artist, he uses to be more often anonymous as real. He likes to 
play. Acording to him, the play is the core of his works, the reaction 
to the surroundings and the action of his vision.
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 06:31:17 +1000
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
From: "][catching.22][" <netwurker[at]hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm -
   NYTIMES

At 05:48 AM 5/04/2006, you wrote:
>   * report mi_ga and mi_ga's ISP as a spammer
>   * remove mi_ga from the Rhizome RAW list.


p[h]at.trick,

can i suggest u actually start getting a clue in terms of an x.tended
net.art practitioner k_no_w.ledge/historical grounding?

ref: http://cramer.plaintext.cc/personal_archives/codework/mi_ga/

...4 1.

*sighing + shaking head*

-][mez][-



_thick.memoir.cableing.nost[||neur]algia.bloody_
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/


                       .





+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 20:45:25 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alexis Turner <subbies[at]redheadedstepchild.org>
To: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
cc: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm -
  NYTIMES

Aside from the fact that the work is a complete rip-off of existing work 
from
DXArts faculty member James Coupe, which brings into question its place as
"art," I don't understand why you would ban it from the list when you have
failed to ban other spam-like postings from the list.  Because it confused
people and they *actually* thought it was spam?  The Incessant "Please 
do not
spam art" e-mails to the list actually made me unsubscribe from 
Rhizome-RAW for
many months, until I finally just sucked it up and re-subscribed, albeit 
with a
new spam filter in place to quickly and thoroughly rid my box of said
pestilential e-mails.

If you are not going to ban all spam-like "art" from the list, then don't.
Don't pick and choose just because one is more successful at looking 
like spam
than another.  Either ban them all, or none of them.  But banning the 
writer of
some software and reporting them to their ISP does nothing in the way of
stopping those that download their work and propogate it from their own
machines.

I must admit I find it incredibly wry that the mailia "spammer"
actually told everyone on the list exactly what the project was before 
sending
these e-mails, and, shock of shocks, the list is so regularly full of 
crap that
NO ONE BOTHERED TO READ THE HEADS UP EMAIL AND WERE THUS TOTALLY BAFFLED 
BY THE
FOLLOWUPS.  This probably says something about the general "beauty" of 
the RAW
e-mails, that people routinely ignore them.  What's one more piece of 
garbage,
in such an environment?  Perhaps the answer to that question is the very 
genius
of mailia.
-Alexis


On Tue, 4 Apr 2006, Patrick May wrote:

::Hello,
::
::So, Mailia is apparently an art project written by this Rhizome user:
::
::    mi_ga[at]o-o.lt
::
::There's enough of a history of spam / art to complicate matters. 
There are
::plenty unrequested, confusing, and obscure emails which are sent to RAW.
::That's part of the beauty of RAW.
::
::What bothers me is the forgery of the "list[at]rhizome.org" email 
address.  I
::think this classic virus / spam technique is evasive and ultimately 
abusive as
::it takes up our time to investigate the problem.
::
::I'd rather that mi_ga take responsibility for his / her progeny and 
use a more
::appropriate "From Address".  Although it may have been mi_ga's 
intention for
::us at Rhizome to  answer questions about the artwork, our recent 
server issues
::have put a strain on our time.
::
::My question is whether the readers of RAW think that it is appropriate 
for me
::to proceed with these actions:
::
::  * report mi_ga and mi_ga's ISP as a spammer
::  * remove mi_ga from the Rhizome RAW list.
::
::Cheers,
::
::Patrick
::
::--
::Patrick May
::Director of Technology
::Rhizome.org
::phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
::AIM: cyclochew
::+ + +


Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 22:05:50 +0100
From: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Re: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the 
Norm
  - NYTIMES

I'm not sure if we should be too hasty in stopping a net art work in its
tracks - what about giving the artist a voice in this, privately or
openly - and negotiating something...

something decent could come out of this - if he's not a real spammer
then their is a connected context - although I have been wrong before...

marc

>I would agree, I think the artist (who prefers to remain anonymous)
>shoulod take ownership of the mailings
>Eric
>
>Mindaugas Gapsevicius (mi_ga) was born in 1974 in Lithuania, he lives 
and works in Lubeck, Germany and Vilnius, Lithuania.
>Having studied visual arts in Academy of Arts in Vilnius and in 
Muthesius-Hochschule in Kiel, he works as a network administrator at 
ISNM, International School of New Media, in Lubeck. In addition he is 
working as a guest lecturer at University of Arts in Berlin.
>Mindaugas Gapsevicius is one of the initiators of o-o institutio media 
which was established in 1998 and a co-author of net.art project asco-o. 
As an artist, he uses to be more often anonymous as real. He likes to 
play. Acording to him, the play is the core of his works, the reaction 
to the surroundings and the action of his vision.
>+
>-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: Rob Myers <rob[at]robmyers.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - 
NYTIMES
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 23:58:40 +0100
To: Rhizome Raw list <list[at]rhizome.org>

On 4 Apr 2006, at 21:31, ][catching.22][ wrote:

> can i suggest u actually start getting a clue in terms of an
> x.tended net.art practitioner k_no_w.ledge/historical grounding?

For example did you know that Orphan Drift are still going?

- Rob.
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From: mi_ga[at]o-o.lt
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:  mailia
Date: Wed,  5 Apr 2006 06:01:15 +0100 (IST)

The Element Arsenic - Basic Physical and Historical Information.
Chemical Profile for ARSENIC (ORGANIC OR INORGANIC COMPOUNDS) (CAS 
Number: ARF750).  Human Health Hazards; Hazard Rankings; Chemical Use 
Profile ...
Arsenic is very similar chemically to its predecessor phosphorus, so 
much so that it  ... Inorganic arsenic and its compounds, upon entering 
the food chain, ...

mailia

list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> its a cool project. interpretive yet full of parsnips and arsenic
>
>
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Date: 5 Apr 2006 14:47:58 -0000
From: arn <info[at]x-arn.org>
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: [s.p.a.m.] good point

        message meldingofshadows miss make
         verification way [asshole]
         {sue}
   {Why?} . 'fallacy'
         (look)
     YELSTER stars
     food COMPATABILITY
   {with} it salt karma


::::: spam.poem.anti-art.machine :::::
http://www.toegristle.com/netart/spam/
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To: RHIZOME <list[at]rhizome.org>
From: Sal Randolph <salrandolph[at]gmail.com>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: RAW missing messages?
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:53:23 -0400


Just checking in to see if anyone else is getting a lot of very
delayed or missing RAW messages....  Is RAW still having a bit of
technical trouble?

S
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From: "Dirk Vekemans" <dv[at]vilt.net>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: by the way
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:46:36 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C65902.CB9CDEE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

the note from dv's biceps, who thinks it's a RODIN biceps, now has a picture
of dv's biceps in its absence in it, formerly known as a file named
4david,jpg
(somewhere in the middle of it)

greetings,
dv [at] Neue Kathedrale des erotischen Elends
http://www.vilt.net/nkdee


------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C65902.CB9CDEE0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






the =
note from dv's=20
biceps, who thinks it's a RODIN biceps, now has a picture of dv's biceps =
in its=20
absence in it, formerly known as a file named =
4david,jpg
(somewhere in the=20
middle of it)

greetings,
dv [at] =
Neue Kathedrale=20
des erotischen Elends
http://www.vilt.net/nkdee


------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C65902.CB9CDEE0--


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From: "Dirk Vekemans" <dv[at]vilt.net>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: by the way
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 23:24:02 +0200

Well ok, i did, if you say so
So?



> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: list[at]rhizome.org [mailto:list[at]rhizome.org]
> Verzonden: donderdag 6 april 2006 0:18
> Aan: Dirk Vekemans
> Onderwerp: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: by the way
>
>
> mailia
>
> "Dirk Vekemans" <dv[at]vilt.net> wrote:
> > 	charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >the note from dv's biceps, who thinks it's a RODIN biceps, now has a
> >picture of dv's biceps in its absence in it, formerly known
> as a file
> >named 4david,jpg (somewhere in the middle of it)
> >
> >greetings,
> >dv [at] Neue Kathedrale des erotischen Elends http://www.vilt.net/nkdee
> >
> >
>


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Cc: rhizome Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
From: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Re: Preserving Work That Falls Outside the 
Norm - NYTIMES
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:33:21 -0400

Hello,

Just to clarify, Rhizome is not interested in censoring art by any
means. But this was a particular case as the artist was using
"list[at]rhizome.org" as their alias. This compeled us to respond to
complaints, of which we'd received many.

I think it would be best for people to filter out mailia
individually.  Its a misuse of our resources to spend time answering
for this project in light of our recent server difficulties.

Personally I think this project is funny, but it has distracted from
the ongoing rhizome.org recovery process.

Cheers,

Patrick

--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +


On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:05 PM, marc wrote:

> I'm not sure if we should be too hasty in stopping a net art work
> in its tracks - what about giving the artist a voice in this,
> privately or openly - and negotiating something...
>
> something decent could come out of this - if he's not a real
> spammer then their is a connected context - although I have been
> wrong before...
>
> marc
>
>> I would agree, I think the artist (who prefers to remain anonymous)
>> shoulod take ownership of the mailings
>> Eric
>>
>> Mindaugas Gapsevicius (mi_ga) was born in 1974 in Lithuania, he
>> lives and works in Lubeck, Germany and Vilnius, Lithuania.
>> Having studied visual arts in Academy of Arts in Vilnius and in
>> Muthesius-Hochschule in Kiel, he works as a network administrator
>> at ISNM, International School of New Media, in Lubeck. In addition
>> he is working as a guest lecturer at University of Arts in Berlin.
>> Mindaugas Gapsevicius is one of the initiators of o-o institutio
>> media which was established in 1998 and a co-author of net.art
>> project asco-o. As an artist, he uses to be more often anonymous
>> as real. He likes to play. Acording to him, the play is the core
>> of his works, the reaction to the surroundings and the action of
>> his vision.
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>>
>>
>
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From: Geert Dekkers <geert[at]nznl.com>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: less posts to RAW lately?
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:24:53 +0200
To: Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>

Hi All,

Is it just me --- or is it true that there are not as many posts to
RAW these days....?

Geert
http://nznl.com
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 23:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: number of posts
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

yeah.....

it is pretty quiet here compared to before...

spectre and sarai   seem much busier than a few months ago though...........

wonder why that is...



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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:13:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: computer vomit
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

so......this is the bogus rhizome response I heard about.....

another data vomit project......randomized text deconstruction......

geepers.......that would have been the cat's pajamas

in oh.......

1989..........

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Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 03:39:22 -0400
Subject: FW: RHIZOME_RAW: less posts to RAW lately?
From: Lauren Cornell <laurencornell[at]rhizome.org>
To: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>

Remember to respond to this.. Tx -- Following is example

Hi Geert:

There was a bit of fallout after the server crash; some emails may have
fallen through -- But the system is fized now, and there should be no
further interruptions due to technical difficulty.  In terms of quiet on the
list, that?s another issue. Perhaps you should stir up some heated debate.



------ Forwarded Message
From: Geert Dekkers <geert[at]nznl.com>
Reply-To: Geert Dekkers <geert[at]nznl.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:24:53 +0200
To: Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: less posts to RAW lately?

Hi All,

Is it just me --- or is it true that there are not as many posts to
RAW these days....?

Geert
http://nznl.com
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------ End of Forwarded Message



Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 23:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: for god's sake kick him off the list
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

can't rhizome block anyone?   or is it this string of new email handles
and an open policy.....

I am beyond pissed at this.......

I have dozens of turds......oh  I mean "messages"   in my inbox

the repetition for repetition sake just makes it 10,000,000 times more
pathetic

want some attention?     go outside and throw a frisbee........

smile at a senior citizen

talk to someone in your town

just stop this pathetic call for attention and some beyond impotent nerd
impulse to flood the inboxes of kind strangers with what is not even a
continent away from art

i'd rather look at an elephant fling turds onto canvas by a looong shot

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 23:10:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: stop it you moron......you are not an 
artist.....but a genital
      wart.....pathetic
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

pathetic beyond belief

the guy everyone ignored because he had no personality........smelled
bad...........and was just boring as a human ......a conversation about as
exciting as counting a billion paper clips

you are a moron....................



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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: fucking bullshit..............
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

why do morons with brains the size of a pin have to hold the rest of us
hostage like this  generative shit........

I already quit one board because of this shit...

I love rhizome

it is now hostage of some jackass with an iq of a single digit.......

fucking bullshit

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 23:06:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: morons with keyboards....waste of time and space
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

why do morons with brains the size of a pin have to hold the rest of us
hostage like this  generative shit........

I already quit one board because of this shit...

I love rhizome

it is now hostage of some jackass with an iq of a single digit.......

fucking bullshit


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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 01:35:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: so I apologized to "maililia" as I have high blood 
pressure......
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

and now I am being stalked

every message I post on 3 different boards  is coming back to me
personally with malilia

and my personal message saying i'm sorry  and I don't want to die of  a
heart attack over this just came back

malilai


so this has now gone from some art show to cyber stalking  and a total
violation of my privacy

I will prosecute and am in contact with several lawyers already

I am not joking

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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 02:13:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: last point on this crap
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

I got the messages to me from the other boards before   I sent a message
to leave me alone

that is key as I just read about the stupid program being used........

if it was after I emailed directly then that is what is was designed to do

but it was not

it was before and why i emailed to please stop

so it was intentional and meant to get to me in a hacker stalker way

after my admittedly over reacting emails on rhizome

thus I will sue  as I know who did it

unless I get word that he will back off

I know some big time lawyers and have already contacted them

unless I hear a really good explanation that it was not personal

or an apology

then it is legal action

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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: that is it........the lawyers are already contacted
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

that is it

I am proceeding with legal action

funny how a coward can be so easily  traced

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To: raw[at]rhizome.org
From: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Mailia
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:01:03 -0400

Hello,

As mailia appears to be caught in a mail loop, endlessly spamming the
list, I have put the "mi_ga[at]o-o.lt" address on hold.

Cheers,

Patrick

--
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Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +


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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:11:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: good lord.....i am quitting rhizome right now
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

this is enough



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Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 13:30:21 -0400
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome is under attack
From: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>
To: Rhizome Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
CC: Lauren Cornell <laurencornell[at]rhizome.org>,
         Marisa Olson <marisa[at]rhizome.org>, Patrick May 

<patrick[at]rhizome.org>

Hi Rhizome Staff:

Although only irritating. This Mailia stuff is getting out of control.
Can you guys do something to protect us from this spam art or atleast let us
know what is being done to try to stop him or her from continuing this
action.

Thanks for the help in advance.

Cheers,
Lee
-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524

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Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 18:33:38 +0100
From: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>
To: raw[at]rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Mailia

Thanks Patrick,

That will help...

marc




> Hello,
>
> As mailia appears to be caught in a mail loop, endlessly spamming the
> list, I have put the "mi_ga[at]o-o.lt" address on hold.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick
>
> --
> Patrick May
> Director of Technology
> Rhizome.org
> phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
> AIM: cyclochew
> + + +
>
>
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>
>

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Cc: Rhizome Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>,
         Lauren Cornell <laurencornell[at]rhizome.org>,
         Marisa Olson <marisa[at]rhizome.org>
From: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Rhizome is under attack
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:33:46 -0400
To: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>

Lee,

Thanks for writing.  I've taken the following actions:

+ banned messages from "mi_ga[at]o-o.lt" from RAW
+ blocked all IP traffic from mi_ga's server to rhizome

I haven't posted these details publicly, in order to make it more
difficult for mi_ga to respond to these measures.

Cheers,

Patrick

--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +


On Apr 9, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Lee Wells wrote:

> Hi Rhizome Staff:
>
> Although only irritating. This Mailia stuff is getting out of control.
> Can you guys do something to protect us from this spam art or
> atleast let us
> know what is being done to try to stop him or her from continuing this
> action.
>
> Thanks for the help in advance.
>
> Cheers,
> Lee
> --
> Lee Wells
> Brooklyn, NY 11222
>
> http://www.leewells.org
> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
> 917 723 2524

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Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 13:36:19 -0400
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: good lord.....i am quitting rhizome right now
From: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>
To: <hight[at]34n118w.net>, <list[at]rhizome.org>

Its not like its the end of the world.
They will get this situation under control.

I think its funny how people react to a temporary flux in their email
routine. We must understand that Rhizome fosters a community of hackers as
well as academic professions on the list.

Best of luck with your lawsuit.

Cheers,
Lee



On 4/9/06 1:11 PM, "hight[at]34n118w.net" <hight[at]34n118w.net> wrote:

> this is enough
>
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524

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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: let me clarify
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

the lawsuit stuff was a blff to see it would make him stop

but


he did last night send me malilia stuff from my other lists...........one
in india  one in europe

that  1.  have nothing to with rhizome

and 2.   as I had not emailed him directly     the malia  program is not
designed to search for

  hope that is clear

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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:44:11 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Mailia
From: "CULTURETV" <getart[at]xs4all.nl>
To: "Patrick May" <patrick[at]rhizome.org>

Hi Patrick,

Thanks for your quick solution, this a loonatick, seems to me.

ciao
Marjan

Hello,
>
> As mailia appears to be caught in a mail loop, endlessly spamming the
> list, I have put the "mi_ga[at]o-o.lt" address on hold.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick
>
> --
> Patrick May
> Director of Technology
> Rhizome.org
> phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
> AIM: cyclochew
> + + +
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>



Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:29:56 +0100
From: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: good lord.....i am quitting rhizome right now

I agree...

marc

>Its not like its the end of the world.
>They will get this situation under control.
>
>I think its funny how people react to a temporary flux in their email
>routine. We must understand that Rhizome fosters a community of hackers as
>well as academic professions on the list.
>
>Best of luck with your lawsuit.
>
>Cheers,
>Lee
>
>
>
>On 4/9/06 1:11 PM, "hight[at]34n118w.net" <hight[at]34n118w.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>this is enough
>>
>>
>>
>>+
>>-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>+
>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 14:28:40 -0400
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: good lord.....i am quitting rhizome right now
To: list[at]rhizome.org
From: "Eryk Salvaggio" <Eryk_Salvaggio[at]umit.maine.edu>


Rhizome was more fun when there were more "hackers" and/or art pranks. 
Though the endless repeating autoresponder is the least fun of all.

Not to mention I haven't even seen the mailia thing in action. What is 
it supposed to do, respond to email with an automated google search 
response? That would have been more fun to spam us with.

-er.


Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> on Sunday, April 09, 2006 at 1:36 PM 
-0500 wrote:
>Its not like its the end of the world.
>They will get this situation under control.
>
>I think its funny how people react to a temporary flux in their email
>routine. We must understand that Rhizome fosters a community of hackers as
>well as academic professions on the list.
>
>Best of luck with your lawsuit.
>
>Cheers,
>Lee
>
>
>
>On 4/9/06 1:11 PM, "hight[at]34n118w.net" <hight[at]34n118w.net> wrote:
>
>> this is enough
>>
>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>--
>Lee Wells
>Brooklyn, NY 11222
>
>http://www.leewells.org
>http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
>917 723 2524
>
>+
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>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
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>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:41:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: IT WAS A BLUFF    OK?      STOP POSTING ABOUT MY 
MESSAGE
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

it was a bluff to see if he would stop

jesus.  I am friends with hackers (the benevolent ones.



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Cc: mi_ga[at]o-o.lt
From: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Mailia
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:45:08 -0400
To: raw[at]rhizome.org

Hello all,

I would like to raise another important point.

It appears that mi_ga may have tried to adjust the mailia project to
send messages from list[at]rhizome.org legitimately, rather than
spoofing the address [1].

It is very easy to make a mistake working with mailing lists.  It is
a good idea for such scripts to encode hard limits on the number of
messages sent per day, to help protect one's reputation.

A commercial mailing list software called Lyris provides similar
limits to posts by members, but the license fee for that software is
prohibitive.  The list manager for RAW, majordomo does not have these
limits, and I will investigate longer term solutions to this kind of
problem.

I would prefer to be able to give such projects the benefit of the
doubt.  Unfortunately in this case, I had to block the project for
the sake of the server and our inboxes.

Cheers,

Patrick

1. I am aware that Jeremy (hight[at]34n118w.net) reported other abusive
behavior from the mailia project.  If this project was not meant to
be abusive, I would appreciate a full explanation into mailia's
behavior.

--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +


On Apr 9, 2006, at 1:01 PM, Patrick May wrote:

> Hello,
>
> As mailia appears to be caught in a mail loop, endlessly spamming
> the list, I have put the "mi_ga[at]o-o.lt" address on hold.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick
>
> --
> Patrick May
> Director of Technology
> Rhizome.org
> phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
> AIM: cyclochew
> + + +
>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
> 29.php

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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:11:44 +1000
To: list[at]rhizome.org
From: "_vvire.us_" <netwurker[at]hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: good lord.....i am quitting rhizome right now

At 03:36 AM 10/04/2006, you wrote:
>I think its funny how people react to a temporary flux in their email
>routine.


the[se] responses _constitute_ the [mail_bomb] n.terventionesque_art.work.

-][mez][




_thick.memoir.cableing.nost[||neur]algia.bloody_
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/


                       .





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From: Geert Dekkers <geert[at]nznl.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:13:40 +0200
To: Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>


--Apple-Mail-8-957379837
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed

Hi all,

Uhmm -- this mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite
measures taken --- it really is clogging up all the posts. Could
someone please have another look at it?



Geert Dekkers
http://nznl.com


On 9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:

>
> mailia
>
> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>> good stuff
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
> 29.php


--Apple-Mail-8-957379837
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=US-ASCII

Hi all,Uhmm -- this mailia thing =
is still going on, apparently despite measures taken --- it really is =
clogging up all the posts. Could someone please have another look at =
it?
  Geert Dekkershttp://nznl.com
On =
9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt =
wrote:
mailia
list[at]rhizome.org wrote: =
good stuff

  +-> post: list[at]rhizome.org-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org-> 
subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/=
preferences/subscribe.rhiz-> give: =
http://rhizome.org/support+Subscribers to Rhizome are =
subject to the terms set out in theMembership =
Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php=

=

--Apple-Mail-8-957379837--
+
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-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:56:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Nelson <newmediapoet[at]yahoo.com>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: post bomb: new artwork about the bird flu, 
terrible fun
To: list[at]rhizome.org

--0-1605844622-1144623363=:55185
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

All.....(seems I sent my last message as the bomb went off)

   a newly finished, beta beta version of new work centered around our 
glorious obsession with the bird flu...any and all comments are so dearly
   desired as I'm also viral, viral


   Pandemic Rooms

   http://www.secrettechnology.com/pandemic/


   cheers, Jason Nelson

		
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great 
rates starting at 1¢/min.
--0-1605844622-1144623363=:55185
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

All.....(seems I sent my last message as the bomb went off)     a newly 
finished, beta beta version of new work centered around our glorious 
obsession with the bird flu...any and all comments are so dearly 
desired as I'm also viral, viral
        Pandemic Rooms     http://www.secrettechnology.com/pandemic/ 
     cheers, Jason Nelson
		Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great 
rates starting at 1¢/min.
--0-1605844622-1144623363=:55185--
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Cc: Geert Dekkers <geert[at]nznl.com>
From: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:37:06 -0400
To: Rhizome Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>


--Apple-Mail-4-962385585
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed

Geert,

I think I got the last of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST.  There may still
be emails in transit which I can't recall.  Another user was still
receiving messages like this, I believe they have dissipated.

I don't mind taking a look at the messages that you are still
receiving.  Please send me the entire message, including the full
headers.  See this link for instructions:

      http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html

You can forward this message to:

      webmaster[at]rhizome.org

Cheers,

Patrick

--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +


On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Uhmm -- this mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite
> measures taken --- it really is clogging up all the posts. Could
> someone please have another look at it?
>
>
>
> Geert Dekkers
> http://nznl.com
>
>
> On 9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:
>
>>
>> mailia
>>
>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>>> good stuff
>>>
>>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
>> subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
>> 29.php
>


--Apple-Mail-4-962385585
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=ISO-8859-1

Geert,I think I got the last of =
these stopped ~ 3:45 EST.=A0 There may still be emails in transit which =
I can't recall.=A0 Another user was still receiving messages like this, =
I believe they have dissipated.I don't mind taking a look =
at the messages that you are still receiving.=A0 Please send me the =
entire message, including the full headers.=A0 See this link for =
instructions:=A0=A0 =A0http://www.spamcop=
.net/fom-serve/cache/19.htmlYou can forward this =
message to:=A0=
=A0 =A0webmaster[at]rhizome.org=
Cheers,Patrick
  --Patrick MayDirector of TechnologyRhizome.orgphone: (212) 219-1288 =
x202AIM: cyclochew+ + + =

On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers =
wrote:Hi all,Uhmm -- this mailia thing =
is still going on, apparently despite measures taken --- it really is =
clogging up all the posts. Could someone please have another look at =
it?
  Geert Dekkershttp://nznl.com
On =
9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt =
wrote:
mailia
list[at]rhizome.org wrote: =
good stuff

  +-> post: list[at]rhizome.org-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org-> 
subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/=
preferences/subscribe.rhiz-> give: =
http://rhizome.org/support+Subscribers to Rhizome are =
subject to the terms set out in theMembership =
Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php=
  =


=

--Apple-Mail-4-962385585--
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From: beate zurwehme <beate[at]zurwehme.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: good lord.....i am quitting rhizome right now
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:41:04 +0200
To: rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>


Am 09.04.2006 um 20:28 schrieb Eryk Salvaggio:


Rhizome was more fun when there were more "hackers" and/or art pranks.
Though the endless repeating autoresponder is the least fun of all.


plz have a look on the board of yesterdays:

http://netzwissenschaft.org/syndicate.pdf
http://netzwissenschaft.org/n0name.txt

nice greetings,
beate z.


| interlinking of media
| practice with gender related issues
http://zurwehme.org/


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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:12:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alexis Turner <subbies[at]redheadedstepchild.org>
cc: Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: I think the name of my next project will be RTFM

For crying out loud, must Rhizome wipe our asses for us, too?  If you do 
not
like these e-mails, then make your inboxes delete anything with the header
From: mi_ga[at]o-o.lt.  There are clearly no "hackers" left on this list 
if people
cannot even compose a goddamn mail filter.  Just look in the help menu to
figure out how to do it.  Everyone.  Please.  I am serious.  RTFM.

I think the Rhizome staff has gone above and beyond for us all on this 
issue, and
I think they should deal with more important things now - things that 
they can
do for Rhizome that we cannot.  Their jobs are more important than 
holding our
hands while we figure out how to use a keyboard or a man page.  Instead of
keeping them awake at night, can we please just thank them for a job 
well done
by doing some things for ourselves?
-Alexis


On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Geert Dekkers wrote:

::Hi all,
::
::Uhmm -- this mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite 
measures taken
::--- it really is clogging up all the posts. Could someone please have 
another
::look at it?
::
::
::
::Geert Dekkers
::http://nznl.com
::
+
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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
To: list[at]rhizome.org

--0-786718060-1144628248=:56708
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hey there
Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? What is 
done willingly or was it just a mistake?
Thanx,
Cyrill.

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Geert,

I think I got the last of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST.ļæ? There may still 
be emails in transit which I can't recall.ļæ? Another user was still 
receiving messages like this, I believe they have dissipated.


I don't mind taking a look at the messages that you are still 
receiving.ļæ? Please send me the entire message, including the full 
headers.ļæ? See this link for instructions:


ļæ?ļæ? ļæ?http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html


You can forward this message to:


ļæ?ļæ? ļæ?webmaster[at]rhizome.org


Cheers,


Patrick


--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +



On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:

Hi all,

Uhmm -- this mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite measures 
taken --- it really is clogging up all the posts. Could someone please 
have another look at it?





  Geert Dekkers
http://nznl.com



On 9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:



mailia


list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
  good stuff




  +
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---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great 
rates starting at 1¢/min.
--0-786718060-1144628248=:56708
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hey there
Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? What is 
done willingly or was it just a mistake?
Thanx,
Cyrill.

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Geert,I think I got the last 
of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST. There may still be emails in transit which 
I can't recall. Another user was still receiving messages like this, I 
believe they have dissipated.I don't mind taking a look at the messages 
that you are still receiving. Please send me the entire message, 
including the full headers. See this link for instructions: 
http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.htmlYou can forward this 
message to: webmaster[at]rhizome.orgCheers,Patrick
  --Patrick MayDirector of TechnologyRhizome.orgphone: (212) 219-1288 
x202AIM: cyclochew+ + +
On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:Hi all,Uhmm -- this 
mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite measures taken --- it 
really is clogging up all the posts. Could someone please have another 
look at it?
  Geert Dekkershttp://nznl.com
On
  9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:
mailia
list[at]rhizome.org wrote: good stuff

  +-> post: list[at]rhizome.org-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org-> 
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the terms set out in theMembership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php



		Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great 
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:52:41 +0100
From: marc <marc.garrett[at]furtherfield.org>
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: As seen on N  B  C, C  B  S, C  N  N, and even Oprah.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000808020303080506070405
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

As seen on N B C, C B S, C N N, and even O  p rah.
I was listening to the radio today
As reported on in the New En gland Jou rnal of Medi cine.
music was blaring its independence
Reverses ag ing while bur ning f at,
I had finished having a bath and felt fresher
without dieting or exercise.
less tired and eager to listen
Forget aging and die ting forever And it's Gu arant eed!
I put the kettle on and turned the sound up
1.Body F at Lo ss
it had escaped me, what the day was today
2.Wr inkle Reduc tion
it might of escaped you as you yourselves
3.Increased Ene rgy Levels
went on your merry ways to pursuing yourselves
4.Mus cle Stre ngth impro vement
and all ourselves do collectively pursue the selves
5.Incr eased Se xual Pot ency
you see I enjoy noise, the sound of energy crashing
6.Imp roved Emoti onal Stab ility
thrashing out intensity with a liberated obnoxiousness
7.B et ter Me mory
and Drum and
Bass........................................................ well I'm
addicted to it
Lo se wei ght while bui lding le an mus cle ma ss
and reve rsing the rav ages of aging all at once.
the music had finished ended
and then
the news began
Please <http://www.coolfreecard.com/>vis it our web si te to le arn the

<http://www.coolfreecard.com/>
the voice on the radio mentioned the date and then...













a silence
fa cts about this qua lity hea lth pro duct and
followed.....






vi ew our abs olute satis faction gua rantee click here
To un sub sc ribe from fut ure of fers,
I turned the silence up
and listened
to the crackles on the radio
re ply with of f
for some reason I am open to really listening these days *
Hello, info[at]furtherfield.org
As seen on N B C, C B S, C N N,*
I listened to that sound called two minutes of silence
*and even O p rah.*
to me, it was not silence what I had just heard *
As reported on in the New En gland*
it was a different kind of noise, a noise we all prefer to ignore
*Jou rnal of Medi cine.*
I started to think about the one I love *
Reverses ag ing while bur ning f at,*
and the pain of others who had lost their loves *
without dieting or exercise. Forget aging and die ting forever *
and the reality of pain
that history has tirelessly*
And it's Gu arant eed! 1.Body F at Lo ss*
has catalogued for us all *
2.Wr inkle Reduc tion 3.Increased Ene rgy*
I thought of my father and the violence he possessed
*Levels 4.Mus cle Stre ngth impro vement 5.Incr eased Se xual Pot ency*
and his relentless one dimensional onslaught *
6.Imp roved Emoti onal Stab ility 7.B et ter Me mory*
onslaught on all our family
*Lo se wei ght while bui lding le an mus cle ma ss*
perhaps you've had a father like that too
*and reve rsing the rav ages of aging all at once.*
I thought of Slaughterhouse 5, Nagasaki, Hiroshima
*Please vis it our web si te to le arn the fa cts about this qua lity
hea lth pro duct* <http://www.coolfreecard.com/>
and all the other killing fields
that many fathers and boys have played on <http://www.coolfreecard.com/>
*and vi ew our abs olute satis faction gua rantee click here*
<http://www.coolfreecard.com/>*
To un sub sc ribe from fut ure of fers, re ply with of f*
and as the silence reigned its awe and power
Hello, info[at]furtherfield.org <mailto:info[at]furtherfield.org> *
As seen on N B C, C B S, C N N, and even O p rah. As reported on in the
New En gland Jou rnal of Medi cine.*
I began to feel the sensation to cry *
Reverses ag ing while bur ning f at,*
In that moment of time,
my time which is also shared with
all those
*without dieting or exercise. Forget aging and die ting forever And *
who
have been senselessly
put to death *
it's Gu arant eed! 1.Body F at Lo ss
*by man's ever increasing lust for self-glory
via
insecure masculine means ='s, power over love *
2.Wr inkle Reduc tion 3.Increased Ene rgy Levels 4.Mus cle Stre ngth
impro vement
5.Incr eased Se xual Pot ency *
wanksome liberation
through violent means it seems
that mankind, is not kind***
6.Imp roved Emoti onal Stab ility 7.B et ter Me mory Lo se wei ght while *
far far behind of what I and hopefully many other others
*bui lding le an mus cle ma ss
and reve rsing the rav ages of aging all at once.*
consider worth being
so I ask you,
not just you,
me also
*Please vis it our web si te to le arn the fa cts about this qua lity
hea lth pro duct and vi ew * <http://www.coolfreecard.com/>
put down our self conscious fears
and feel the pain of others
feel our own pains <http://www.coolfreecard.com/>
*our abs olute satis faction gua rantee click here*
<http://www.coolfreecard.com/>*
To un sub sc ribe from fut ure of fers, re ply with of f*
put them to some use,
and not hide them,
forwe possess imaginations
Hello, info[at]furtherfield.org <mailto:info[at]furtherfield.org>
As seen on N B C, C B S, C N N, and even Oprah. As reported on in the
New En gland Jou rnal of Medi cine.
the desire for a better reality
Reverses ag ing while bur ning f at, without dieting or exercise.
Forget aging and die ting
the capacity to explore creativity,
to break away
.............And it's Gu arant eed!
1.Body F at Lo ss
2.Wr inkle Reduc tion
3.Increased Energy Levels......................


--------------000808020303080506070405
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit








As seen on N B
C, C B S, C N N, and even O
  p rah.

I was listening to the radio today

As
reported on in the New En gland Jou rnal of Medi cine.

music was blaring its independence

Reverses ag ing while bur ning f at,

I had
finished having a bath and felt fresher

without dieting or exercise.

less
tired and eager to listen

Forget aging and die ting forever And
it's Gu arant eed!

I put
the kettle on and turned the sound up

1.Body F at Lo ss

it had escaped
me, what the day was today

2.Wr inkle Reduc tion

it might of
escaped you as you yourselves

3.Increased Ene
rgy Levels

went on your
merry ways to pursuing yourselves

4.Mus
cle Stre ngth impro vement

and all ourselves do collectively pursue the selves

5.Incr eased Se xual Pot ency

you see I enjoy noise, the sound of energy crashing

6.Imp roved Emoti onal Stab ility

thrashing out intensity with a liberated obnoxiousness

7.B et ter Me mory

and Drum and
Bass........................................................ well I'm
addicted to it

Lo se wei ght while bui lding le an mus cle ma ss

  and reve rsing the rav ages of aging all at
once.

the music had
finished ended

and then

the news began

Pleasevis
  it our web si te to le arn
the

the voice on the radio mentioned the date and
then...



























a silence

fa cts about this qua lity
hea lth pro duct and

followed.....













vi
ew our abs olute satis faction gua rantee click here

To un sub sc
ribe from fut ure of fers,

I turned the silence up

and listened

to the crackles on the radio

re ply with of f

for some reason I am open to really listening these days

Hello, info[at]furtherfield.org

  As
seen on N B C, C B S, C N N,

I listened to that sound called two minutes of
silence

and even O p rah.

to me, it was not silence what I had just heard

As reported on in the New En gland

it was a different kind of noise, a noise we all prefer to ignore

Jou
rnal of Medi cine.

I started to think about the one I love

Reverses ag ing while bur ning f at,


and the pain of others who had lost their loves

without dieting or exercise. Forget aging and die ting
forever

and the reality of pain

that history has tirelessly

And it's Gu arant eed!
1.Body F at Lo ss

has catalogued for us all

2.Wr inkle Reduc tion 3.Increased Ene
rgy

I thought of my father and the violence he possessed

Levels
4.Mus cle Stre ngth impro vement 5.Incr eased Se xual Pot ency


and his relentless one dimensional onslaught

6.Imp
roved Emoti onal Stab ility 7.B et ter Me mory

onslaught on all our family

Lo se wei
ght while bui lding le an mus cle ma
ss

perhaps you've had a father like that too

and reve
rsing the rav ages of aging all at once.

I thought of Slaughterhouse 5, Nagasaki, Hiroshima

Please vis it our
web si te to le arn the fa
cts about this qua lity hea lth pro
duct

and all the other killing
fields

that many fathers and boys have played on

and
vi ew our abs olute satis faction gua rantee click here

To
un sub sc ribe from fut ure of fers, re ply with of f

and
as the silence reigned its awe and power

Hello, info[at]furtherfield.org

As
seen on N B C, C B S, C N N, and even O p rah. As reported on in the
New En gland Jou rnal of Medi cine.

I began to feel the sensation to cry

Reverses ag ing while bur ning f at,


In that moment of time,

my time which is also shared with

all those

without
dieting or exercise. Forget aging and die ting forever And
who

have been senselessly

put to death

it's Gu arant eed! 1.Body F
at Lo ss

by man's ever increasing lust for
self-glory

via

insecure masculine means ='s, power over love

2.Wr inkle Reduc tion 3.Increased Ene rgy Levels 4.Mus cle Stre ngth
impro vement

  5.Incr eased Se xual Pot ency

wanksome liberation

through violent means it seems

that mankind, is not kind

6.Imp
roved Emoti onal Stab ility 7.B et ter Me mory Lo se wei ght while

far far behind of what I and hopefully many other others

bui
lding le an mus cle ma ss

  and reve rsing the rav ages of aging all at once.


consider worth being

so I ask you,

not just you,

me also

Please vis it our web si te
to le arn the fa cts about this qua
lity hea lth pro duct and vi ew

put down our self conscious
fears

and feel the pain of others

feel our own pains

our abs olute satis
faction gua rantee click here

To
un sub sc ribe from fut ure of fers, re ply with of f

put them to some use,

and not hide them,

forwe possess imaginations

Hello, info[at]furtherfield.org


As seen on N B C, C B S, C N N, and even Oprah. As reported on in the
New En gland Jou rnal of Medi cine.

the desire for a better reality

Reverses ag ing while bur
ning f at, without dieting or exercise.

Forget aging and die ting

the capacity to explore creativity,

to break away

.............And it's Gu arant eed!

1.Body F at Lo ss

2.Wr inkle Reduc tion

  3.Increased Energy
Levels......................







--------------000808020303080506070405--
+
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-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:04:57 +0200
From: aabrahams <aabrahams[at]bram.org>
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: I think the name of my next project will be RTFM
Cc: "Alexis Turner" <subbies[at]redheadedstepchild.org>

what is RFTM?


Alexis tries to mathematically pinpoint the convergence of happiness

pooooh
let's dance

bye
annie

ps I like miga
should be something interesting in his action


On 4/10/06, Alexis Turner <subbies[at]redheadedstepchild.org> wrote:
> For crying out loud, must Rhizome wipe our asses for us, too?  If you 
do not
> like these e-mails, then make your inboxes delete anything with the 
header
> From: mi_ga[at]o-o.lt.  There are clearly no "hackers" left on this 
list if people
> cannot even compose a goddamn mail filter.  Just look in the help menu to
> figure out how to do it.  Everyone.  Please.  I am serious.  RTFM.
>
> I think the Rhizome staff has gone above and beyond for us all on 
this issue, and
> I think they should deal with more important things now - things that 
they can
> do for Rhizome that we cannot.  Their jobs are more important than 
holding our
> hands while we figure out how to use a keyboard or a man page. 
Instead of
> keeping them awake at night, can we please just thank them for a job 
well done
> by doing some things for ourselves?
> -Alexis

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From: "Jim Andrews" <jim[at]vispo.com>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: I think the name of my next project will be RTFM
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:21:01 -0700


I made a 'rule' that deleted messages *from* mi_ga[at]o-o.lt but that didn't
work, since the messages are from rhizome. After poking around a bit, yes, I
found the option to delete messages where "mi_ga[at]o-o.lt" is in the 
header.
And that seems to be working. However, I see the 'rule' is deleting not only
messages sent by mi_ga[at]o-o.lt but the odd other message as well that is a
reply to mi_ga[at]o-o.lt. So I guess such a filter is, by its nature, 
not only
going to delete messages from whomever but also messages that reply to that
whomever? Recursively? Would be nice if it could quite specifically delete
*only* messages from the specified spammer.

ja
http://vispo.com


+
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:43:00 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alexis Turner <subbies[at]redheadedstepchild.org>
To: aabrahams <aabrahams[at]bram.org>
cc: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: I think the name of my next project will be RTFM

Now THAT was hilarious.

Potentially agressive behavior tested and averted.  Would you like your
Reassurances in Greek?
ευχαριστώ 

άννι

RTFM = UGoogle, and mail/a have many headers.  From, sender, reply-to all
different.
-A.



On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, aabrahams wrote:

::what is RFTM?
::
::
::Alexis tries to mathematically pinpoint the convergence of happiness
::
::pooooh
::let's dance
::
::bye
::annie
::
::ps I like miga
::should be something interesting in his action
+
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From: "manik" <manik[at]ptt.yu>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: INVASION!
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:51:43 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

INVASION!
I see Warhol's "Coke" in mi_ga[at]o-o.lt,I see people from other side =
Gallery who put plain "Coke"in store window to show how hurt they are,to =
show they sterile misunderstanding of this new art art.I see history who =
rune near you like road runner but it's so obvious that you can't see =
it(it's too fast).I see your gluttonous coyote face too stupid to catch =
bird,to catch sense in "mailia".You aspect Manevich to tell you what's =
new art.Just wait:one day coyote's going to catch bird.This day Good's =
going to die(again and again). =20
Wales radio play who frighten millions of honest citizen of U.S.A.I see =
D.Judd's "specific object"in post-neo-whatever attack on bureaucracy =
safety of our computers.I see average American baby who spend 400 time =
more material(water,diapers,cosmetic,food,clothing,medicine...etc)than =
African baby.
I see U.S.A who refuse to sign international convention about world =
pollution.
I hear terrible sound of military airplane 5000metars high who throw out =
bomb on my head from safety distance.
I see "invisible" fiber who fall on Serbian electric cable and live =
people without electric for days,and days,and days...And my people cry =
in the night:"Patrick,do something,it's to heavy to move =
fingers,this"mailia"is symptom of all our symptoms and we don't want to =
come face to face with that-extreme shape of =
democracy-anarchy.Unbearable!We want safe art,safe sex,empty dream with =
Iraq in pink flower.We can't stand Raw,we want to be Rhizome without =
responsibility and 'art'.
We want to be just what we are,Subject without "Other"."The Other"bring =
filthy water and bad infection,the Other is threat.
His name's "mailia".Try it.Good stuff!
MANIK      =20

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INVASION!
I see Warhol's "Coke" in mi_ga[at]o-o.lt,I see people from other =
side Gallery=20
who put plain "Coke"in store window to show how hurt they are,to show =
they=20
sterile misunderstanding of this new art art.I see history who rune =
near=20
you like road runner but it's so obvious that you can't see it(it's too =
fast).I=20
see your gluttonous coyote face too stupid to catch bird,to catch sense =
in=20
"mailia".You aspect Manevich to tell you what's new art.Just =
wait:one day=20
coyote's going to catch bird.This day Good's going to die(again and=20
again).
Wales radio play who frighten millions =
of honest=20
citizen of U.S.A.I see D.Judd's "specific object"in post-neo-whatever =
attack on=20
bureaucracy safety of our computers.I see average American baby who =
spend 400=20
time more =
material(water,diapers,cosmetic,food,clothing,medicine...etc)than=20
African baby.
I see U.S.A who refuse to sign =
international=20
convention about world pollution.
I hear terrible sound =
of military=20
airplane 5000metars high who throw out bomb on my head from safety=20
distance.
I see "invisible" fiber who fall on =
Serbian=20
electric cable and live people without electric for =
days,and days,and=20
days...And my people cry in the night:"Patrick,do something,it's =
to heavy=20
to move fingers,this"mailia"is symptom of all our symptoms and we don't =
want=20
to come face to face with that-extreme shape of=20
democracy-anarchy.Unbearable!We want safe art,safe sex,empty dream with =
Iraq in=20
pink flower.We can't stand Raw,we want to be Rhizome without=20
responsibility and 'art'.
We want to be just what we are,Subject =
without=20
"Other"."The Other"bring filthy water and bad infection,the Other is=20
threat.
His name's "mailia".Try it.Good =
stuff!
MANIK

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C65C73.9C544280--
+
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From: "manik" <manik[at]ptt.yu>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: language of weakness
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:36:37 +0200

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hight[at]34n118w.net wrote:
why do morons with brains the size of a pin have to hold the rest of us
hostage like this  generative shit........

I already quit one board because of this shit...

I love rhizome

it is now hostage of some jackass with an iq of a single digit.......

fucking bullshit
=20
MANIK wrote:
Curse's language of weakness.

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hight[at]34n118w.net wrote:
why do morons with brains the size of a =
pin have to=20
hold the rest of us
hostage like this  generative=20
shit........

I already quit one board because of =
this=20
shit...

I love rhizome

it is now hostage of some jackass with =
an iq of a=20
single digit.......

fucking bullshit

MANIK wrote:

Curse's language of=20
weakness.

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C65C82.436600A0--


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From: "manik" <manik[at]ptt.yu>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Good ideas
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:33:37 +0200

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ja wrote:
Good ideas are spread and propagated by consenting human beings who =
choose
to spread the word, not by viruses and bots that simply propagate their
creator's infantile willfulness.

ja
http://vispo.com

MANIK wrote:
We don't talking about "idea".This is 'art',upset form=20
closse to idea,but not to much.


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ja wrote:
Good ideas are spread and propagated by =
consenting=20
human beings who choose
to spread the word, not by viruses and bots =
that=20
simply propagate their
creator's infantile willfulness.

ja
http://vispo.com

MANIK wrote:
We don't talking about "idea".This is =
'art',upset=20
form
closse to idea,but not to =
much.


------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C65C92.9BFD7EE0--


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From: "Sofia Oliveira" <sofiaoliveira[at]atmosferas.net>
To: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>, <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:18:23 +0100

please get rid of this idiot!

----- Original Message -----
From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:


>
> mailia
>
> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> > good stuff
> >
> >
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: "manik" <manik[at]ptt.yu>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: "Kill him!"
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:43:04 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C65C9C.4FAB0760
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hight[at]34n118w.net wrote:
RHIZOME_RAW: stop it you moron......you are not an artist.....but a =
genital  wart.....pathetic
pathetic beyond belief

the guy everyone ignored because he had no personality........smelled
bad...........and was just boring as a human ......a conversation about =
as
exciting as counting a billion paper clips

you are a moron....................

MANIK wrote:
Why don't you say:"Kill him!"because that's what you want.Isn't it?


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C65C9C.4FAB0760
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable








hight[at]34n118w.net wrote:
RHIZOME_RAW: stop it you moron......you =
are not an=20
artist.....but a genital  wart.....pathetic
pathetic beyond belief

the guy everyone ignored because he had =
no=20
personality........smelled
bad...........and was just boring as a =
human=20
......a conversation about as
exciting as counting a billion paper=20
clips

you are a =
moron....................

MANIK wrote:
Why don't you say:"Kill=20
him!"because that's what you want.Isn't it?


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C65C9C.4FAB0760--


+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: beate zurwehme <beate[at]zurwehme.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:23:15 +0200
To: list[at]rhizome.org


no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
is even better than naming others as "idiots".

hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!


Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:

please get rid of this idiot!

----- Original Message -----
From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:


>
> mailia
>
> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>> good stuff
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:10:50 -0300
From: roberto echen <rechen[at]rechen.com>
To: list[at]rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:

agree

beate zurwehme wrote:

>
> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>
> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
>
>
> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>
> please get rid of this idiot!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
> To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>
>
>>
>> mailia
>>
>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>>
>>> good stuff
>>>
>>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
To: list[at]rhizome.org

--0-1499416489-1144678901=:38845
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hey there,
As said in the below unanswered message, I am interested in how such a 
thing can happen? (and it is NOT to copycat her/him, just a newbie 
interest in the technical aspects of mailing-lists/servers)
On the other hand - still without any statement about the art value of 
such a thing - I don't get why people get so upset when it is so easy 
just to add mi-ga to a black list on the subscriber side not to receive 
these mails anymore? (Well, it won't work with digest, of course...)
And on the third hand (or left foot, or whatever you want) do I need to 
be an american academic to get my posts to rhizome taken into account? 
(I already tried to contribute some posts two years or so ago from 
another address and they remained equally unanswered... so I got back 
into the ranks of the lurking majority)
Yours,
Cyrill.

"==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com> wrote: Hey there
Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? What is 
done willingly or was it just a mistake?
Thanx,
Cyrill.

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Geert,

I think I got the last of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST. There may still be 
emails in transit which I can't recall. Another user was still receiving 
messages like this, I believe they have dissipated.


I don't mind taking a look at the messages that you are still receiving. 
Please send me the entire message, including the full headers. See this 
link for instructions:


  http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html


You can forward this message to:


  webmaster[at]rhizome.org


Cheers,


Patrick


--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +



On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:

Hi all,

Uhmm -- this mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite measures 
taken --- it really is clogging up all the posts. Could someone please 
have another look at it?





  Geert Dekkers
http://nznl.com



On  9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:



mailia


list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
  good stuff




  +
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php









---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great 
rates starting at 1Ā¢/min.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--0-1499416489-1144678901=:38845
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hey there,
As said in the below unanswered message, I am interested in how such a 
thing can happen? (and it is NOT to copycat her/him, just a newbie 
interest in the technical aspects of mailing-lists/servers)
On the other hand - still without any statement about the art value of 
such a thing - I don't get why people get so upset when it is so easy 
just to add mi-ga to a black list on the subscriber side not to receive 
these mails anymore? (Well, it won't work with digest, of course...)
And on the third hand (or left foot, or whatever you want) do I need to 
be an american academic to get my posts to rhizome taken into account? 
(I already tried to contribute some posts two years or so ago from 
another address and they remained equally unanswered... so I got back 
into the ranks of the lurking majority)
Yours,
Cyrill.

"==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com> wrote: Hey there
Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? What is 
done willingly or was it just a mistake?
Thanx,
Cyrill.

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Geert,I think I got the last 
of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST. There may still be emails in transit which 
I can't recall. Another user was still receiving messages like this, I 
believe they have dissipated.I don't mind taking a look at the messages 
that you are still receiving. Please send me the entire message, 
including the full headers. See this link for instructions: 
http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.htmlYou can forward this 
message to: webmaster[at]rhizome.orgCheers,Patrick
  --Patrick MayDirector of TechnologyRhizome.orgphone: (212) 219-1288 
x202AIM: cyclochew+ + +
On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:Hi all,Uhmm -- this 
mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite measures taken --- it 
really is clogging up all the posts. Could someone please have another 
look at it?
  Geert Dekkershttp://nznl.com
On
  9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:
mailia
list[at]rhizome.org wrote: good stuff

  +-> post: list[at]rhizome.org-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org-> 
subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz-> 
give: http://rhizome.org/support+Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to 
the terms set out in theMembership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


    Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. 
Great rates starting at 1/min.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
  protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--0-1499416489-1144678901=:38845--
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: "Sofia Oliveira" <sofiaoliveira[at]atmosferas.net>
To: "beate zurwehme" <beate[at]zurwehme.org>, <list[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:40:27 +0100

don't you think that if that was the case, we would have heard some
explanation from mailia?

----- Original Message -----
From: "beate zurwehme" <beate[at]zurwehme.org>
To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:


>
> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>
> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
>
>
> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>
> please get rid of this idiot!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
> To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>
>
> >
> > mailia
> >
> > list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> >> good stuff
> >>
> >>
> > +
> > -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>


+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Cc: "==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com>
From: Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:20:25 -0400
To: Rhizome Rhizome <list[at]rhizome.org>


--Apple-Mail-5-1018985080
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=ISO-8859-1;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed

Hello,

+ create a script which auto-responds to email
+ subscribe it to a mailing list
+ point the responses to the mailing list

This creates a short circuit, since the program is essentially =20
responding to itself.  Everyone else on the mailing list suffers a =20
mail bomb as an inadvertent side effect.

  =46rom my perspective, the problem with this project is that it =20
consumed all memory on the server, leading to 3 server outages over =20
the weekend.  Unfortunately the question of whether to ban is a moot =20
point, since I am compelled to block a denial of service.

Cheers,

Patrick

--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +


On Apr 10, 2006, at 10:21 AM, =3D=3D> wrote:

> Hey there,
> As said in the below unanswered message, I am interested in how =20
> such a thing can happen? (and it is NOT to copycat her/him, just a =20
> newbie interest in the technical aspects of mailing-lists/servers)
> On the other hand - still without any statement about the art value =20=

> of such a thing - I don't get why people get so upset when it is so =20=

> easy just to add mi-ga to a black list on the subscriber side not =20
> to receive these mails anymore? (Well, it won't work with digest, =20
> of course...)
> And on the third hand (or left foot, or whatever you want) do I =20
> need to be an american academic to get my posts to rhizome taken =20
> into account? (I already tried to contribute some posts two years =20
> or so ago from another address and they remained equally =20
> unanswered... so I got back into the ranks of the lurking majority)
> Yours,
> Cyrill.
>
> "=3D=3D>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey there
> Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? What =20=

> is done willingly or was it just a mistake?
> Thanx,
> Cyrill.
>
> Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote:
> Geert,
>
> I think I got the last of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST.=EF=BF=BD There may =
=20
> still be emails in transit which I can't recall.=EF=BF=BD Another user =
=20
> was still receiving messages like this, I believe they have =20
> dissipated.
>
> I don't mind taking a look at the messages that you are still =20
> receiving.=EF=BF=BD Please send me the entire message, including the =
full =20
> headers.=EF=BF=BD See this link for instructions:
>
> =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDhttp://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.ht=
ml
>
> You can forward this message to:
>
> =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDwebmaster[at]rhizome.org
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick
>
> --
> Patrick May
> Director of Technology
> Rhizome.org
> phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
> AIM: cyclochew
> + + +
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Uhmm -- this mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite =20
>> measures taken --- it really is clogging up all the posts. Could =20
>> someone please have another look at it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Geert Dekkers
>> http://nznl.com
>>
>>
>> On 9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> mailia
>>>
>>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>>>> good stuff
>>>>
>>>>
>>> +
>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/=20
>>> subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/=20
>>> 29.php
>>
>
>
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. =20
> Great rates starting at 1=C2=A2/min.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com


--Apple-Mail-5-1018985080
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello,+ create a script which =
auto-responds to email+ subscribe it to a mailing =
list+ point the responses to the mailing listThis creates a short =
circuit, since the program is essentially responding to itself.=A0 =
Everyone else on the mailing list suffers a mail bomb as an=A0inadvertent =
side effect.=46rom my perspective, the =
problem with this project is that it consumed all memory on the server, =
leading to 3 server outages over the weekend.=A0 Unfortunately the =
question of whether to ban is a moot point, since I am compelled to =
block a denial of service.Cheers,Patrick--Patrick MayDirector of 
TechnologyRhizome.orgphone: (212) 219-1288 =
x202AIM: cyclochew+ + + =

On Apr 10, 2006, at 10:21 AM, =3D=3D> =
wrote:Hey there,
As said in the below unanswered message, I =
am interested in how such a thing can happen? (and it is NOT to copycat =
her/him, just a newbie interest in the technical aspects of =
mailing-lists/servers)
On the other hand - still without any =
statement about the art value of such a thing - I don't get why people =
get so upset when it is so easy just to add mi-ga to a black list on the =
subscriber side not to receive these mails anymore? (Well, it won't work =
with digest, of course...)
And on the third hand (or left foot, or =
whatever you want) do I need to be an american academic to get my posts =
to rhizome taken into account? (I already tried to contribute some posts =
two years or so ago from another address and they remained equally =
unanswered... so I got back into the ranks of the lurking =
majority)
Yours,
Cyrill.

"=3D=3D>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com> =
wrote: Hey =
there
Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? =
What is done willingly or was it just a =
mistake?
Thanx,
Cyrill.

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> =
wrote: Geert,I think I got the last of =
these stopped ~ 3:45 EST.=EF=BF=BD There may still be emails in transit =
which I can't recall.=EF=BF=BD Another user was still receiving messages =
like this, I believe they have dissipated.I don't mind taking a look =
at the messages that you are still receiving.=EF=BF=BD Please send me =
the entire message, including the full headers.=EF=BF=BD See this link =
for instructions:=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDhttp://www.spamcop=
.net/fom-serve/cache/19.htmlYou can forward this =
message to:=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDwebmaster[at]rhizome.org=
Cheers,Patrick
  --Patrick MayDirector of TechnologyRhizome.orgphone: (212) 219-1288 =
x202AIM: cyclochew+ + + =

On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers =
wrote:Hi all,Uhmm -- this mailia thing =
is still going on, apparently despite measures taken --- it really is =
clogging up all the posts. Could someone please have another look at =
it?
  Geert Dekkershttp://nznl.com
On  =
9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt =
wrote:
mailia
list[at]rhizome.org =
wrote: good =
stuff

  +-> post: list[at]rhizome.org-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org-> 
subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/=
preferences/subscribe.rhiz-> =
give: http://rhizome.org/support+Subscribers =
to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in theMembership Agreement 
available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php=
  =


    Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to =
make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates =
starting at 1=C2=A2/min.
__________=
________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of =
spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
=

--Apple-Mail-5-1018985080--
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:40:08 -0400
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
From: Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org>
To: roberto echen <rechen[at]rechen.com>, Rhizome Rhizome 

<list[at]rhizome.org>

I feel the same way, but, lets make sure none of us have to deal with
getting bombed by over 500 emails everyday.

On 4/10/06 10:10 AM, "roberto echen" <rechen[at]rechen.com> wrote:

> agree
>
> beate zurwehme wrote:
>
>>
>> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
>> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>>
>> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
>>
>>
>> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>>
>> please get rid of this idiot!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
>> To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
>> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> mailia
>>>
>>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> good stuff
>>>>
>>>>
>>> +
>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:59:04 +0200
From: aabrahams <aabrahams[at]bram.org>
To: "Lee Wells" <lee[at]leewells.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Cc: "Rhizome Rhizome" <list[at]rhizome.org>

I think you didn't get Patrick May's message:

"> From my perspective, the problem with this project is that it
consumed all memory on the server, leading to 3 server outages over
the weekend.  Unfortunately the question of whether to ban is a moot
point, since I am compelled to block a denial of service.
> "

"no more rhizome" if he doesn't block mi_ga
at least that's what I understand
Is that what you want?

bye
Annie

ps
I like mi_ga

On 4/10/06, Lee Wells <lee[at]leewells.org> wrote:
> I feel the same way, but, lets make sure none of us have to deal with
> getting bombed by over 500 emails everyday.
>
> On 4/10/06 10:10 AM, "roberto echen" <rechen[at]rechen.com> wrote:
>
> > agree
> >
> > beate zurwehme wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
> >> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
> >>
> >> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
> >>
> >> please get rid of this idiot!
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
> >> To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
> >> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> mailia
> >>>
> >>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> good stuff
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> +
> >>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> >>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: 
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>> +
> >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >>> Membership Agreement available online at 
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


From: beate zurwehme <beate[at]zurwehme.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:24:47 +0200
To: list[at]rhizome.org


what's the problem with deleting 500 mails?



Am 10.04.2006 um 17:40 schrieb Lee Wells:

I feel the same way, but, lets make sure none of us have to deal with
getting bombed by over 500 emails everyday.

On 4/10/06 10:10 AM, "roberto echen" <rechen[at]rechen.com> wrote:

> agree
>
> beate zurwehme wrote:
>
>>
>> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
>> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>>
>> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
>>
>>
>> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>>
>> please get rid of this idiot!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
>> To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
>> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> mailia
>>>
>>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> good stuff
>>>>
>>>>
>>> +
>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at
>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at
>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at
>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: forgive me......I was near a heart attack and 
panicked....I am
      beyond embarassed
From: hight[at]34n118w.net
To: list[at]rhizome.org

I have high blood pressure (taking 3 medicines) and an enlarged heart  and
nearly died two years ago from another heart problem

and the malalia  person has been attacking me offline out of no where even
before all this....

just picked me....

I freaked and should have just walked away....

he is still sending me messages from "list[at]rhizome" after I quit 
mostly to
not burden everyone and out of the shame I feel right now which is immense

I never act like that  and it was just some weird panic and I am sorry



+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:17:07 -0700
To: list[at]rhizome.org
From: jeremy hight <hight[at]34n118w.net>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: i am deeply sorry to everyone....I panicked as he 
was attacking me offlist and i have heart disease


I am so sorry.......the malia person has been attacking me personally 
before this

just picked me out of the blue after I posted about  a book I was in

he still is sending me messages after I quit rhizome out of shame and to 
not be a burden to everyone after those inexcusable emails   you are now 
reading....

that  night  the person was sending me messages offlist from my other 
accounts............

stuff you wouldn't know on rhizome   and I had not emailed them so it 
wasn't the function of the mailia program but intentional  taunts

I have high blood pressure and an enlarged heart and the stress of the 
off list taunts was sending me to near heart attack status  and i nearly 
died two years ago from heart problems....was in intensive care for 7 
days......

so I freaked.........should have walked away and laid down

I am a pacifist and gentle.........hate using foul language........


but I had the irrational thought that  bogus threats of a lawsuit  and 
those inexcusable and dumb messages would make him stop as I in a panic 
sent him a personal email pleading to stop and it just bounced back a 
mailia response


I quit rhizome and will just go away..

in a panic  I basically ruined my relationship with rhizome

inconvenienced  upset and offended people in the community here

and will feel this for quite some time

if you ever meet me in a festival or conference down the road

please forgive me
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
To: list[at]rhizome.org

--0-660617825-1144706493=:12847
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

that's the compulsive poster in you speaking i guess

furthermore, hasn't that kind of thing been done and re-done? (don't 
bother answering, i know it has)

btw
you are going to receive this e-mail 500 times from 500 different 
addresses, with 500 different titles and 500 different contents

will you be able to make the difference?

be frightened

the french connection is back

beate zurwehme <beate[at]zurwehme.org> wrote:
what's the problem with deleting 500 mails?



Am 10.04.2006 um 17:40 schrieb Lee Wells:

I feel the same way, but, lets make sure none of us have to deal with
getting bombed by over 500 emails everyday.

On 4/10/06 10:10 AM, "roberto echen"  wrote:

> agree
>
> beate zurwehme wrote:
>
>>
>> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
>> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>>
>> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
>>
>>
>> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>>
>> please get rid of this idiot!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> To:

>> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
>> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> mailia
>>>
>>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> good stuff
>>>>
>>>>
>>> +
>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at
>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at
>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at
>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


		
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! MessengerÕs low  PC-to-Phone call 
rates.
--0-660617825-1144706493=:12847
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

that's the compulsive poster in you speaking i guess

furthermore, hasn't that kind of thing been done and re-done? (don't 
bother answering, i know it has)

btw
you are going to receive this e-mail 500 times from 500 different 
addresses, with 500 different titles and 500 different contents

will you be able to make the difference?

be frightened

the french connection is back

beate zurwehme <beate[at]zurwehme.org> wrote:
what's the problem with deleting 500 mails?




Am 10.04.2006 um 17:40 schrieb Lee Wells:

I feel the same way, but, lets make sure none of us have to deal with
getting bombed by over 500 emails everyday.

On 4/10/06 10:10 AM, "roberto echen" <rechen[at]rechen.com> wrote:

> agree
>
> beate zurwehme wrote:
>
>>
>> no,
  please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
>> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>>
>> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
>>
>>
>> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>>
>> please get rid of this idiot!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <mi_ga[at]o-o.lt>
>> To: <list[at]rhizome.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
>> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> mailia
>>>
>>> list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> good stuff
>>>>
>>>>
>>> +
>>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give:
  http://rhizome.org/support
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at
>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at
>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>> +
>> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>>
  Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at
>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

-- 
Lee Wells
Brooklyn, NY 11222

http://www.leewells.org
http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
917 723 2524

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available
  online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


		How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! MessengerÕs low  PC-to-Phone call 
rates.
--0-660617825-1144706493=:12847--
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:25:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
To: list[at]rhizome.org

--0-44927713-1144707905=:7299
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello Patrick and listees
thanks for your answer,

my question is a bit off-topic since it concerns the technical side of 
what happened but:
isn't it possible to set a rule that would discard mails based on their 
content rather than on the e-mail address? I mean, something that could 
have been implemented quickly so the list wouldn't have received so many 
identical e-mails?

And why this mi-ga[at]o.o-lt doesn't  explain what was tried to be done? 
The fact that it failed - because I am pretty sure it failed, the 
objective wasn't to give someone a heart attack and upset the others - 
doesn't mean it was a bad idea, but the reasons could be numerous, and 
I'd like to know more about the motivations... Spam art is too vague a 
term to explain anything.

Cyrill.

ps: Patrick, you may have already received this answer, but I forgot to 
forward it to the list, and since it is of indeniable interest...

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Hello,

+ create a script which auto-responds to email
+ subscribe it to a mailing list
+ point the responses to the mailing list


This creates a short circuit, since the program is essentially 
responding to itself.ļæ? Everyone else on the mailing list suffers a 
mail bomb as anļæ?inadvertent side effect.


>From my perspective, the problem with this project is that it consumed 
all memory on the server, leading to 3 server outages over the 
weekend.ļæ? Unfortunately the question of whether to ban is a moot 
point, since I am compelled to block a denial of service.


Cheers,


Patrick

--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +



On Apr 10, 2006, at 10:21 AM, ==> wrote:

Hey there,
As said in the below unanswered message, I am interested in how such a 
thing can happen? (and it is NOT to copycat her/him, just a newbie 
interest in the technical aspects of mailing-lists/servers)
On the other hand - still without any statement about the art value of 
such a thing - I don't get why people get so upset when it is so easy 
just to add mi-ga to a black list on the subscriber side not to receive 
these mails anymore? (Well, it won't work with digest, of course...)
And on the third hand (or left foot, or whatever you want) do I need to 
be an american academic to get my posts to rhizome taken into account? 
(I already tried to contribute some posts two years or so ago from 
another address and they remained equally unanswered... so I got back 
into the ranks of the lurking majority)
Yours,
Cyrill.

"==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com> wrote: Hey there
Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? What is 
done willingly or was it just a mistake?
Thanx,
Cyrill.

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Geert,

I think I got the last of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST. There may still be 
emails in transit which I can't recall. Another user was still receiving 
messages like this, I believe they have dissipated.


I don't mind taking a look at the messages that you are still receiving. 
Please send me the entire message, including the full headers. See this 
link for instructions:


  http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html


You can forward this message to:


ļæ?ļæ? ļæ?webmaster[at]rhizome.org


Cheers,


Patrick


--
Patrick May
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
AIM: cyclochew
+ + +



On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:

Hi all,

Uhmm -- this mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite measures 
taken --- it really is clogging up all the posts. Could someone please 
have another look at it?





  Geert Dekkers
http://nznl.com



On  9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:



mailia


list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
  good stuff




  +
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php









---------------------------------
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--0-44927713-1144707905=:7299
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello Patrick and listees
thanks for your answer,

my question is a bit off-topic since it concerns the technical side of 
what happened but:
isn't it possible to set a rule that would discard mails based on their 
content rather than on the e-mail address? I mean, something that could 
have been implemented quickly so the list wouldn't have received so many 
identical e-mails?

And why this mi-ga[at]o.o-lt doesn't  explain what was tried to be done? 
The fact that it failed - because I am pretty sure it failed, the 
objective wasn't to give someone a heart attack and upset the others - 
doesn't mean it was a bad idea, but the reasons could be numerous, and 
I'd like to know more about the motivations... Spam art is too vague a 
term to explain anything.

Cyrill.

ps: Patrick, you may have already received this answer, but I forgot to 
forward it to the list, and since it is of indeniable interest...

Patrick May
  <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Hello,+ create a script which 
auto-responds to email+ subscribe it to a mailing list+ point the 
responses to the mailing listThis creates a short circuit, since the 
program is essentially responding to itself. Everyone else on the 
mailing list suffers a mail bomb as aninadvertent side effect.From my 
perspective, the problem with this project is that it consumed all 
memory on the server, leading to 3 server outages over the weekend. 
Unfortunately the question of whether to ban is a moot point, since I am 
compelled to block a denial of service.Cheers,Patrick--Patrick 
MayDirector of TechnologyRhizome.orgphone: (212) 219-1288 x202AIM: 
cyclochew+ + +
On Apr
  10, 2006, at 10:21 AM, ==> wrote:Hey there,
As said in the below unanswered message, I am interested in how such a 
thing can happen? (and it is NOT to copycat her/him, just a newbie 
interest in the technical aspects of mailing-lists/servers)
On the other hand - still without any statement about the art value of 
such a thing - I don't get why people get so upset when it is so easy 
just to add mi-ga to a black list on the subscriber side not to receive 
these mails anymore? (Well, it won't work with digest, of course...)
And on the third hand (or left foot, or whatever you want) do I need to 
be an american academic to get my posts to rhizome taken into account? 
(I already tried to contribute some posts two years or so ago from 
another address and they remained equally unanswered... so I got back 
into the ranks of the lurking majority)
Yours,
Cyrill.

"==>" <cduneau[at]yahoo.com> wrote: Hey there
Just curious, what happened? a mailbot, a bug, something else? What is 
done willingly or was it just a mistake?
Thanx,
Cyrill.

Patrick May <patrick[at]rhizome.org> wrote: Geert,I think I got the last 
of these stopped ~ 3:45 EST. There may still be emails in transit which 
I can't recall. Another user was still receiving messages like this, I 
believe they have dissipated.I don't mind taking a look at the messages 
that you are still receiving. Please send me the entire message,
  including the full headers. See this link for instructions: 
http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.htmlYou can forward this 
message to: webmaster[at]rhizome.orgCheers,Patrick
  --Patrick MayDirector of TechnologyRhizome.orgphone: (212) 219-1288 
x202AIM: cyclochew+ + +
On Apr 9, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Geert Dekkers wrote:Hi all,Uhmm -- this 
mailia thing is still going on, apparently despite measures taken --- it 
really is clogging up all the posts. Could someone please have another 
look at it?
  Geert Dekkershttp://nznl.com
On  9/04/2006, at 8:57 AM, mi_ga[at]o-o.lt wrote:
mailia
list[at]rhizome.org wrote: good stuff

  +-> post: list[at]rhizome.org-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org->
  subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz-> 
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the terms set out in theMembership Agreement available online at 
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:36:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Nelson <newmediapoet[at]yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: i am deeply sorry to everyone....I panicked as 
he was attacking me offlist and i have heart disease
To: jeremy hight <hight[at]34n118w.net>, list[at]rhizome.org

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Jeremy and All,

   Dont quit. I like you. I liked your rant back. The same argument that
   supports the mailia postings, also goes for your response.

   Hell any response and re-response on this list is fun and thought making.

   I have no idea what was written off list. But most of us have had 
upsetting
   e-mail exchanges of one sort or another.

   My suggestion would be to take the posts and make an artwork out of them.
   Not with the senders idea in mind, but take what the sender sent you and
   make it your own.  Extend the game with a new, maybe more interesting 
artwork. Because that is really what all of us are doing anyway.

   And dont worry about using the posts. The sender obviously wanted it 
to be public.

   And there certainly would be an audience for whatever you came up with.

   Stay and rant more.

   cheers, Jason




jeremy hight <hight[at]34n118w.net> wrote:

I am so sorry.......the malia person has been attacking me personally 
before this

just picked me out of the blue after I posted about a book I was in

he still is sending me messages after I quit rhizome out of shame and to 
not be a burden to everyone after those inexcusable emails you are now 
reading....

that night the person was sending me messages offlist from my other 
accounts............

stuff you wouldn't know on rhizome and I had not emailed them so it 
wasn't the function of the mailia program but intentional taunts

I have high blood pressure and an enlarged heart and the stress of the 
off list taunts was sending me to near heart attack status and i nearly 
died two years ago from heart problems....was in intensive care for 7 
days......

so I freaked.........should have walked away and laid down

I am a pacifist and gentle.........hate using foul language........


but I had the irrational thought that bogus threats of a lawsuit and 
those inexcusable and dumb messages would make him stop as I in a panic 
sent him a personal email pleading to stop and it just bounced back a 
mailia response


I quit rhizome and will just go away..

in a panic I basically ruined my relationship with rhizome

inconvenienced upset and offended people in the community here

and will feel this for quite some time

if you ever meet me in a festival or conference down the road

please forgive me
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
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Jeremy and All,    Dont quit. I like 
you. I liked your rant back. The same argument that  supports 
the mailia postings, also goes for your response.  
  Hell any response and re-response on this list 
is fun and thought making.    I have no idea 
what was written off list. But most of us have had upsetting 

e-mail exchanges of one sort or another.    
  My suggestion would be to take the posts and make an artwork out 
of them.  Not with the senders idea in mind, but take what 
the sender sent you and  make it your own.Extend 
thegame with a new, maybe more interesting artwork. Because that 
is reallywhat all of us are doing anyway. 
  And dont worry about using the posts. The sender 
obviously wanted it to be public.    And 
there certainly
  would be an audience for whatever you came up with. 

  Stay and rant more.   
cheers, Jason      

jeremy hight <hight[at]34n118w.net> wrote: 
I am so sorry.......the malia person has been attacking me personally 
before this

just picked me out of the blue after I posted about a book I was in

he still is sending me messages after I quit rhizome out of shame and to 
not be a burden to everyone after those inexcusable emails you are now 
reading....

that night the person was sending me messages offlist from my other 
accounts............

stuff you wouldn't know on rhizome and I had not emailed them so it 
wasn't the function of the mailia program but intentional taunts

I have high blood pressure and an enlarged
  heart and the stress of the off list taunts was sending me to near 
heart attack status and i nearly died two years ago from heart 
problems....was in intensive care for 7 days......

so I freaked.........should have walked away and laid down

I am a pacifist and gentle.........hate using foul language........


but I had the irrational thought that bogus threats of a lawsuit and 
those inexcusable and dumb messages would make him stop as I in a panic 
sent him a personal email pleading to stop and it just bounced back a 
mailia response


I quit rhizome and will just go away..

in a panic I basically ruined my relationship with rhizome

inconvenienced upset and offended people in the community here

and will feel this for quite some time

if you ever meet me in a festival or conference down the road

please forgive me
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
-> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
->
  subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
--0-1390772415-1144744569=:87795--
+
-> post: list[at]rhizome.org
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:59:32 +0100 (BST)
From: utku omeroglu <utku_omeroglu[at]yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
To: list[at]rhizome.org

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Sofia and friends...

   Please let's not confuse this daily  idiot's relation as a word with 
the Deleuze's conceptual character's idiot as an  'idiot.'
    This idiot recognizes what the hell is it...he or she cares love 
more than his or her own ass.

Sofia Oliveira <sofiaoliveira[at]atmosferas.net> wrote:
   don't you think that if that was the case, we would have heard some
explanation from mailia?

----- Original Message -----
From: "beate zurwehme"
To:

Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:


>
> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>
> hier gehts um die freiheit der netze!
>
>
> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>
> please get rid of this idiot!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:

> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>
>
> >
> > mailia
> >
> > list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> >> good stuff
> >>
> >>
> > +
> > -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
> +
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> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> +
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> -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
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> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>


+
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Sofia and friends...     Please let's not confuse this daily  idiot's 
relation as a word with the Deleuze's conceptual character's idiot as an 
  'idiot.'   This idiot recognizes what the hell is it...he or she cares 
love more than his or her own ass.

Sofia Oliveira <sofiaoliveira[at]atmosferas.net> wrote:  don't you think 
that if that was the case, we would have heard some
explanation from mailia?

----- Original Message -----
From: "beate zurwehme"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:


>
> no, please don't ban him from the list. i think, automatic spam "art"
> is even better than naming others as "idiots".
>
> hier gehts um die
  freiheit der netze!
>
>
> Am 10.04.2006 um 12:18 schrieb Sofia Oliveira:
>
> please get rid of this idiot!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:49 AM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
>
>
> >
> > mailia
> >
> > list[at]rhizome.org wrote:
> >> good stuff
> >>
> >>
> > +
> > -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info[at]rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
> +
> -> post: list[at]rhizome.org
> ->
  questions: info[at]rhizome.org
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> +
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> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> +
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>


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